remember those teenage abstinence pledges?

[Saint Marcus]

In my experience that's usually done to justify having sex yet fulfilling their pledges.

Indeed. I know an American christian girl who got married at age 19, cause she told me she couldn't stand to wait for having sex much longer. Sad.

[Kropotkin]

It's interesting that many a fundamentalist christian person thinks that condoms more explode left and right. I didn't even think that they where supposed to use them (have you ever crossed over to the dark side Obi Wan?) so it's somewhat of a suprise that they know so much about them. Maybe there's a correlation between being christian and being unable to use a condom properly.

(Sorry, I just can't take the issue seriously)

[Spiffor]

Kroptokin:

If you don't believe that condoms explode constantly, it means you have no experience of what you are talking about

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Kroptokin:

If you don't believe that condoms explode constantly, it means you have no experience of what you are talking about

I thought we were talking about the... other use for condoms.... you know.... not putting them on your head (just over the nose) and overinflating them, in a drunken frat boy game.

[Kropotkin]

I've actually experienced condoms exploding, but that was as a kid, and in no way in a sexual context.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
I thought we were talking about the... other use for condoms.... you know.... not putting them on your head (just over the nose) and overinflating them, in a drunken frat boy game.

I used to get paid to do that.

[MrBaggins]

I wonder if Obi Gyn is including figures for that in his Condom Failure rate stats

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
I thought we were talking about the... other use for condoms.... you know.... not putting them on your head (just over the nose) and overinflating them, in a drunken frat boy game.

What are we talking about then?

[MrBaggins]

I think the topic was anal sex with virgins... or was that a popup I'm remembering?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok, so it is better for tow kids to, simply out of lust, get married so they can have sex

Again, if they value marriage they will see marriage as a lifetime commitment. Sadly, marriage is not held in high regard by most of society, at least, not as a lifetime commitment.

Best is to wait, get to know the person for a few years, and then get married.

It is so becuase you used it party as a way to paint condoms as ineffective, while the piece said condom education was ineffecitve not becuase condoms are foolproof but becuase of misinformation about them in asfirca, thus a "just condom's" approach would fail. Just like a "just say no" approach is not significantly effective.

Not really.

The piece that said 11% was the first piece quoted.

As for condom use being more effective in a society that adores condoms, what do we see in North America? More and more kids are turning off the command to use a condom every time. They have heard all the arguments, since they were young, and they are tuning out.

[Ben Kenobi]

And you're happy with this? That the vast majority of those kids that the groups are supposedly setting out to help, to have avoid the negative consequences of sex, that these kids are put more at risk from those consequences as a result?

The pledge does not put them more at risk, nor does it give them the false sense of security and invulnerability that condoms do.

Yes, it is difficult for kids to hold on to the pledge, but you have to compare them with the 99% of those who do not pledge, who have premaritial intercourse, 88% is rather remarkable.

Now, I would be satisfied if everyone who pledged held onto their vows, but realistically, there are some who are going to fall short. What I care more about are the vectors. Is the situation improving, or declining? Are more kids falling away than holding on?

You're pleased by that?

I thought it would be lower, to be honest, that more would keep their vows, but I did not anticipate that 99% of those who do not pledge have premarital intercourse. THAT was a big surprise to me.

I would hate to see what you would consider a failure.

Are abstinence programs a success? Not if their goal is for everyone to wait until they are married. There is still plenty of work that needs to be done. What I resent are the condom distributors seeking every possible means to dismiss abstinence training, because they know that they are a threat to their bottom line.

[Ben Kenobi]

Consider this.

If you have a train that is bearing full steam in one direction, does it not take quite some effort just to bring the train to a halt, let alone to reverse the train? That's what I see happening right now. The train is just starting to slow.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
*SNIP*
I thought it would be lower, to be honest, that more would keep their vows, but I did not anticipate that 99% of those who do not pledge have premarital intercourse. THAT was a big surprise to me.

Why? There is a biological imperitive for reproduction... and there is no biological imperitive for marriage.

Why should a marital state of someone effect a biological imperitive?

[Q Classic]

i'm gone for a day after seeing this sink like a rock, and then it explodes? man...

So divorce is worse than sleeping around? That's an interesting perspective.

yes, ben, it is worse, and i don't see what's interesting about it.
now, sleeping around isn't that good either--you're taking what's supposed to seal the marriage contract and using it elsewhere...
but a divorce... it's breaking the contract after it's been sealed. even worse if children are involved.
divorce is worse than sleeping around, precisely because of its effects on the children.
(hm. seems like this point has already been made, but i'd not read the rest of the thread.)

[Ben Kenobi]

It's interesting that many a fundamentalist christian person thinks that condoms more explode left and right.

Now, is that very fair?

Did I ever say condoms explode?

What I did say was that condoms break, slip and leak.

(have you ever crossed over to the dark side Obi Wan?)

Depends on what you mean by the dark side.

Maybe there's a correlation between being christian and being unable to use a condom properly

Why do you need condoms at all? What purpose do they serve?