How far did the Gibson apple fall from the tree?

[Imran Siddiqui]

If all Christians don't share that specific belief, then obviously "his" religion doesn't represent all of Christianity.

No, his religion is a branch of Catholicism

why are you claiming a reference to Gibson and his religion actually refers to people who don't belong to his religion?

He is a Christian and belongs to a sect of that religion. His religion is Christianity. His religion isn't Pre-Vatican II Catholicism. That's the sect he belongs to under the religion.

I've never heard the phrase "the Catholic sect", have you?

And I've never heard the phrase "the Catholic religion".

I have heard the term Sunni and Shiite sects of Islam. In both cases, the religion is Islam and the sects are groupings under that religion.

Are these religions?

Nope, they are all parts of the Christian religion.

The claim shared by Gibson and members of his religion

You mean Christians.

[Ben Kenobi]

Some idiots probably do - but the bible is so contradictory you would be totally confused.

Your avatar does make sense. I keep getting these images of raids on the threads, trying to draw fire.

[Berzerker]

Ah yes, the Mormon religion..




Oh, wait, according to Imran there is no such thing because we cannot use the word "religion" in association with a "sect".

Thanks molly... I almost forgot those Mormon's too, who also believe society should be organized on their religious texts.

Shouldn't that be "sect texts"?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


I doubt you sat in a room all day for years, rocking back and forth in an almost trance-like state whilst memorizing every word in the Bible. Let's try to get some perspective here, people.

So your point is that Christians are less devout in their beliefs?

Go to any Christian revivalist meeting or the Charismatics' meetings, and you'll see people supposedly speaking in tongues, or being healed whilst in a 'trance-like' state.

Even the happy clappy gospel services try to get you into a state of fervour through rhythm and sound. It's hardly an Islamic trait.

"Today we'll be flying Religionista Air- chanting or non-chanting, sir?"

I'd rather memorize the Qu'ran than stick hooks into my body like Hindu devotees, or stick one arm up in the air for years like Hindu saddhus, and lose the use of a perfectly good arm to show my religious devotion.

[Drake Tungsten]

I keep getting these images of raids on the threads, trying to draw fire.

Makes me wish I had a custom avatar...

[Ben Kenobi]

Berz:

On what point?

Atonement of Christ

The claim shared by Gibson and members of his religion that "we" killed Jesus is bogus and I reject this belief and their religion.

If Catholicism is a religion, then so are Mennonites and Episcopalians, Reformed, and even the Adventists.

Secondly, they all agree on the Atonement of Christ, so you are not just attacking the one, but the whole.

As for the Doc, I'll let him defend your points against him. He speaks for me when he does, though.

[Berzerker]

Imran -

And I've never heard the phrase "the Catholic religion".

Thx, sig material.

You mean Christians.

So Christians share the same beliefs as Gibson?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Shouldn't that be "sect texts"?

The Bible is a 'sect text' now?

[Drake Tungsten]

So your point is that Christians are less devout in their beliefs?

No. My point is that, while every religion has its share of nutjobs, Islam is the only one at this point in time in which the nutjobs are numerous and politically powerful enough to force their dangerous doctrine onto the population at large. The scary thing about the madrasas isn't what goes on inside them (although that is pretty frightening); it's their large numbers and considerable influence in many parts of the Muslim world that worries me and should worry all other thinking people.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker


So Christians share the same beliefs as Gibson?

Yes, 'The Patriot' was appalling and 'Braveheart' a travesty.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Thx, sig material.

Go right ahead. It ain't its own religion.

So Christians share the same beliefs as Gibson?

On the main points (ie, following Jesus, the Bible), yes.

You're point is like saying the Christian Coalition are a seperate party. Their party isn't the Republicans. That's a silly argument.

[Alexander's Horse]

Gibson is a catholic, which has lots of streams or subgroups.

The difference between us and protties is we keep all our loonies in the tent p*ssing out.

[Ben Kenobi]

Any religion worth its salt hopes to 'brainwash' its followers- group meetings, reinforcement of a community focus, sodalities, religious instruction from an early age, Sunday school, school prayer in religious schools

Let me see.

1. group meetings. I meet more often with Catholics then I do other mennonites.

2. reinforcement of a community focus.

I don't see the other folks in my church, outside of church, other than my best friend. So I am a part of their faith community, but the community outside, I am free to see whomever I want.

3 - 5. religious instruction from an early age.

Nope. Never really had any.

6. School prayer? Nope. Never heard of any.

I think we can chalk up your experiences to a very odd group, in that you would not be free to have protestant friends. None of your experiences with Christianity match up with mine.

[Berzerker]

Ben -

Atonement of Christ

Is this the same belief that we killed Jesus? I thought it was the belief that Jesus died to relieve us of our sins...

If Catholicism is a religion, then so are Mennonites and Episcopalians, Reformed, and even the Adventists.

You mean they aren't religions? Is "the Mormon religion" an inappropriate use of the word "religion"?

Secondly, they all agree on the Atonement of Christ, so you are not just attacking the one, but the whole.

Who "attacked" this atonement?

As for the Doc, I'll let him defend your points against him. He speaks for me when he does, though.

Why would I want him to defend my points against him? He can't even defend his points against me...

[Alexander's Horse]

Of course the Catholic church is the one true church and is the only one to have the fullness of faith free of human error - but apart from that we catholics are just humble christians like everyone else.