How far did the Gibson apple fall from the tree?

[Ben Kenobi]

Imran:

episcopalian, a Catholic and a Mennonite

And remember the good Doc is the Episcopalian.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Berz:

We have an episcopalian, a Catholic and a Mennonite just in this thread. If you include Mad Monk, you have a reformed, and apologies to anyone I forgot.

There are different denominations, but on this point they all agree.

So your point again?

As for the good Doc speaking for all Christians, on this point, I have no problem having him speak for me.

any reason you don't include me

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

It's not that common and it certainly isn't considered the end all, be all of education as memorization of the Koran is in many parts of the world.

Like where? If you are studying to be an Imam, it's something. If you aren't, no one cares. Really, you should know about a religion because you slam it .

You don't find being forced to memorize a religious text and treat it as the word of God and basis for all laws and governance to be slightly reminiscent of brainwashing?

You mean like Baptists do? You mean like they did around 1000?

How many states are run like that? What, 5? Iran, parts of Nigeria, Yemen, damn I don't know any others . Even Saudi Arabia isn't run that way.

[Drake Tungsten]

Like where?

Pakistan? It would probably take me five minutes to find a madrasa in Peshawar, as long as some nutjob didn't cap my infidelic ass first.

We don't even need to talk about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc...

parts of Nigeria, Yemen,

Damn, forgot about them. I bet I could find some in Sudan, Somalia and Malysia, too; maybe even the Phillipines and Kuwait. I'm probably forgetting other, as well.

You mean like they did around 1000?

Who care about what happened in 1000? Live in the now, where the Christians are the normal ones and the Muslims are the insane zealots...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Pakistan? It would probably take me five minutes to find a madrasa in Peshawar

My parents are from Pakistan. No one in my family has memorized the Koran. Try again.

We don't even need to talk about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc...

Again, memorizing the Koran is only important if you want to be an Imam. I bet there are plenty of priests who have their favorite biblical passages memorized.

Who care about what happened in 1000?

So you admit that Baptists treat the Bible like the word of God and use it for their basis of law and governances. Good, we are getting somewhere .

[Ben Kenobi]

and apologies to anyone I forgot.

Jon:

Sorry.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[

So no child in all Christianity memorizes the Bible? No one memorizes how to say a "Hail Mary"?

What is the brainwashing you speak of?

"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man."

The Jesuits.

Well, I memorized the Hail Mary, the Lord's Prayer, the Magnificat, the De Profundis, and my catechism, because you get tested on it if you're a Catholic.

And I read and memorized the Bible too. I was real Catholic. Of course, if you're really fervent, you go on retreats, and meditate on Christ's wounds, et cetera, et cetera. And in the Philippines you get yourself nailed to a cross, although possibly not as part of a holiday package..

[Imran Siddiqui]

Thanks molly... I almost forgot those Mormon's too, who also believe society should be organized on their religious texts.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So no child in all Christianity memorizes the Bible?

Some idiots probably do - but the bible is so contradictory you would be totally confused.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Thanks molly... I almost forgot those Mormon's too, who also believe society should be organized on their religious texts.

Ecumenically yours.

Let's not forget the religionistas who want civil marriages to adhere to their religious beliefs, too- and certain judges who want their religious beliefs enshrined in stone.

Any religion worth its salt hopes to 'brainwash' its followers- group meetings, reinforcement of a community focus, sodalities, religious instruction from an early age, Sunday school, school prayer in religious schools- the Catholic church ran my infant and junior schools, we had holy days of obligation, when you HAD to attend mass before school, memorized prayers and hymns, had rites marking passage into different stages of faith (first Holy Communion, Confirmation) we chose another name for ourselves based on a saint, we watched films on religious subjects, some went on pilgrimages to Lourdes, or Fatima, or Walsingham, we read books on early Christian martyrs.....

Not much difference between my Muslim friends' upbringings and mine, except they were allowed to have Protestant friends and I wasn't.

[Drake Tungsten]

My parents are from Pakistan. No one in my family has memorized the Koran. Try again.

I never said everyone in Pakistan memorizes the Koran in a madrasa. A large number do, though, particularly in regions like Baluchistan and Waziristan. Those are the people and regions that scare the **** out of me. Quit trying to change the subject.

Again, memorizing the Koran is only important if you want to be an Imam.

Not true. It's the main focus of education for youths in fundamentalist areas. They certainly don't teach science or any other ideas thought up by the infidels.

So you admit that Baptists treat the Bible like the word of God and use it for their basis of law and governances.

I really wouldn't know, as I have no clue what Baptist religious doctrine is like. Try again.

Well, I memorized the Hail Mary, the Lord's Prayer, the Magnificat, the De Profundis, and my catechism, because you get tested on it if you're a Catholic.

I doubt you sat in a room all day for years, rocking back and forth in an almost trance-like state whilst memorizing every word in the Bible. Let's try to get some perspective here, people.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Well, I memorized the Hail Mary, the Lord's Prayer, the Magnificat, the De Profundis, and my catechism, because you get tested on it if you're a Catholic."

Not for most catholics today.

[Berzerker]

Imran -

Are you suggesting he isn't a Christian?

I'm suggesting his views aren't necessarily shared by all Christians. Is he a Christian? Not in my opinion, but he can call himself whatever he wants. You didn't answer my question, learning from Strangelove?

You didn't say the members of his sect, you said the members of his religion.

There's a difference? If all Christians don't share that specific belief, then obviously "his" religion doesn't represent all of Christianity.

His reliigon is Christian.

No, his religion is a branch of Catholicism, apparently one that doesn't even agree with the Vatican's exoneration of the Jews.
That's why Christians divide themselves into different religions or sects within Christianity, to reflect disagreements thay have with each other. The Protestant religion is not the Catholic religion and neither is the Quaker religion...

His sect of that religion is pre-Vatican II Catholic. The different between the sects is my entire point! Thanks .

If that was your point why are you claiming a reference to Gibson and his religion actually refers to people who don't belong to his religion? I've never heard the phrase "the Catholic sect", have you? Why is Catholicism by itself a religion if it can only be a "sect" according to your argument?

Ben -

Berz:

We have an episcopalian, a Catholic and a Mennonite just in this thread. If you include Mad Monk, you have a reformed, and apologies to anyone I forgot.

Are these religions?

There are different denominations, but on this point they all agree.

On what point?

So your point again?

The claim shared by Gibson and members of his religion that "we" killed Jesus is bogus and I reject this belief and their religion.

As for the good Doc speaking for all Christians, on this point, I have no problem having him speak for me.

Do you speak for all Christians? I have to ask because I didn't ask Strangelove if he spoke for you... But since you now say he speaks for you, would you care to defend the accusations he made on your behalf?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed... I guess that it must be inherant in any religion. It's a way to keep followers and have a ready base from the children of current believers.

[Alexander's Horse]

Yes but you're not a real catholic, only a pretend one.