How far did the Gibson apple fall from the tree?

[Drake Tungsten]

So the church encourages ignorance, and unquestioned belief?

No; it isn't Islam.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Maybe you forgot about the Islamic scholars during the middle ages in Europe. Far from unquestioned belief and ignorance.

[Berzerker]

Strangelove -

Who ran away?

You did, when I refuted your BS you changed the subject to me allegedly wanting to make it illegal for Christians to practice medicine, i.e., more BS.

You made a sweeping bigoted proclamation of your disrespect for Christians and I revealed it for what it was. You made no rebuttal.

First, why is it bigotry to reject someone's belief as bogus? Second, I never mentioned all Christians or Christianity, just Gibson and people with his religious view that blames us all for killing Jesus. You and Imran have tried to turn that into a comment about all Christians, but anyone reading what I said can see I was referring only to Gibson and people who share his belief...

That is what you said, and apparently most of the witnesses agree with me.

Most? So far only Imran has duplicated your mistake while Ben and Gepap understand what I said.

Let's go over it again: You pronounce your disdain for all Christians.

You aren't using a quote, why is that? Oh yeah, because you can't. Where did I say I have disdain for all Christians. Ben is a Christian and he doesn't agree with you, he agrees with me. I reject a belief held by certain people, real simple.

I point out the basic bigotry of your statement.

No, you called it bigotry after changing what I said. That doesn't point anything out except your inability (wilfull?) to comprehend what I typed.

You then announce that anyone having these beliefs is unfit to practice medicine.

I did? Can you quote me on that one too?

I reply by pointing out that your implied desire to cut off a segment of the population from the profession of Medicine is somewhat ironic coming from someone who calls himself a libertarian.

Hmm...I never mentioned Christians who practice medicine, I merely expressed astonishment someone like you could get a license to practice given your inability to employ logic in this debate. Do you now represent the mental capacity of all Christians? God I hope not, and certainly you don't represent Ben.

The term "collective guilt" is yours, not Gibson's or mine. What Christians believe in isn't "collective guilt" per se.

It isn't my term, it's the term used by Jewish critics of his movie and the alleged portrayal in the original version of Jews as guilty by association - a collective guilt for Jesus' death - a guilt Gibson replaced by indicting us all. Why is it wrong for Gibson to have a line in the original cut where a Jew says Jesus' blood is on them and their children but it's okay for him to replace that line by indicting everyone and their children?

Christians believe that we all have the capacity for evil, that we all express this capacity throughout our lives, and that the people who executed Chirst are all like us and we're all like them. When Mel Gibson says that he killed Christ he doesn't mean that literally. He means that he isn't perfect, and that he has no special claim for moral superiority.

So now you speak for Christians? Gibson didn't say "he" killed Christ, he said "we" killed him. And I reject the notion that because we all have a capacity for evil the people who killed Jesus are like us. Why not just exonerate the Nazis with that gibberish? Hey, they are just like us... Speak for yourself, Doc...

[Drake Tungsten]

I guess that's a tacit admission that modern day Islam is, for the most part, a religion that encourages ignorance and unquestioned belief...

[Imran Siddiqui]

You and Imran have tried to turn that into a comment about all Christians, but anyone reading what I said can see I was referring only to Gibson and people who share his belief...

You were talking about all the members of Gibson's religion. Tell me, what is Gibson's religion, Berz?

[Berzerker]

He belongs to some branch of catholicism. Are you suggesting there are no differences among the various sects of Christianity?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I guess that's a tacit admission that modern day Islam is, for the most part, a religion that encourages ignorance and unquestioned belief...

As much as Catholicism .

He belongs to some branch of catholicism. Are you suggesting there are no differences among the various sects of Christianity?

Are you suggesting he isn't a Christian? You didn't say the members of his sect, you said the members of his religion. His reliigon is Christian. His sect of that religion is pre-Vatican II Catholic. The different between the sects is my entire point! Thanks .

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Remember, you had many Jewish communities in the Roman Empire and only Jerusalem revolted and was crushed. The rest stayed obedient.

Not quite true. There were three main Jewish revolts, the third taking place after the destruction of Jerusalem, a messianic revolt that encompassed the province of Judaea.

[Drake Tungsten]

As much as Catholicism.

While I would never defend the dirty papists, I've never seen or heard of them doing any sort of brainwashing that compares to what goes on in madrasas all over the world. The sight of all those kids rocking back and forth, memorizing the Koran scares the living **** out of me.

[Ben Kenobi]

Berz:

We have an episcopalian, a Catholic and a Mennonite just in this thread. If you include Mad Monk, you have a reformed, and apologies to anyone I forgot.

There are different denominations, but on this point they all agree.

So your point again?

As for the good Doc speaking for all Christians, on this point, I have no problem having him speak for me.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The sight of all those kids rocking back and forth, memorizing the Koran scares the living **** out of me.

So no child in all Christianity memorizes the Bible? No one memorizes how to say a "Hail Mary"?

What is the brainwashing you speak of?

[Ben Kenobi]

You SOOOO left yourself open for a snarky remark with this

Never thought of that when I made the post.

Drake:

Thank you

[Ben Kenobi]

No one memorizes how to say a "Hail Mary"?

Not in my church.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You aren't Catholic... stop it .

You're a Reformed Church member, IIRC.

[Drake Tungsten]

So no child in all Christianity memorizes the Bible?

It's not that common and it certainly isn't considered the end all, be all of education as memorization of the Koran is in many parts of the world.

What is the brainwashing you speak of?

You don't find being forced to memorize a religious text and treat it as the word of God and basis for all laws and governance to be slightly reminiscent of brainwashing? I don't think learning to be a "slave of Allah" is something most kids set out to do of their own accord.

Drake:

Thank you

No problem.