My big problem with Christianity

[Japher]

It's better than being full of some guy

[Ben Kenobi]

Japher:

Think about it for a minute.

Both Moslems and Christians accept that the Romans nailed Christ to a cross. Where they differ, is that the Moslems insist Christ somehow survived. Now, I ask you, how is it possible for Christ to come off that cross alive, when the Romans want to kill Christ?

As for the Old Testament, I throw Spiffor's point at you. The OT prophets indicated their calling by performing miracles. Mohammed did not. Moslems accept that Elijah and Moses did these things as indicated in the Old Testament.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
go and post that question in one of those threads

Done.

[Japher]

how is it possible for Christ to come off that cross alive, when the Romans want to kill Christ?

How is it possible for Christ to rise 3 days later and go around having tea with people as they cleaned his feet?

The OT prophets indicated their calling by performing miracles. Mohammed did not. Moslems accept that Elijah and Moses did these things as indicated in the Old Testament.

I don't believe in hocus-pocus and miracles, nor did I ever say that the Moslems weren't full of it either.

My wife's pastor says that one day I will believe. We'll see.

[MrFun]

The closest viable explanation for how Christ carried out his "healings" is that he used chakra techniques. And that only appears to be a viable explanation for those who already understand what chakra is, and if they believe in it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The OT prophets indicated their calling by performing miracles. Mohammed did not.

This does not invalidate MMohammed as a prophet. God didn't grant him any super powers, he only granted him the supposedly true, perfect, and final message.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Muhammed?

If you look at Moslem doctrine, they reject what I have posted that Jesus died on the cross, but rather that he survived, and the disciples rescued him. This has absolutely no basis, because the Roman soldiers, if they crucified someone, would make sure that they killed the person before letting him off the cross.

Thus, they reject the entire notion of the resurrection, and that Christ is the Son of God. If, and only if, Christ is just another of the Jewish prophets, can there be room for Muhammed.

So let me get this straight, you believe Jesus was the son of God and ressurected, but it is too far fathced to think a man could be taken down from a cross, cause the Romans always make sure you are dead....

Secondly, all prophets perform miracles of some sort to indicate their calling. Moses had his staff of snakes, Elijah, his burning fire. Muhammed performed no miracles during his time on Earth.

Why would he? He was the final-no need to "prove" he is the messanger of God, since he IS the messanger ofGod, the last one. Tough you can say being chosen to be the one to write the Koran is miraculous, or the expansion of the Muslim faith under him is miraculous- he was a one man show, hwile it took paul to spread Jesus' message.

[GePap]

Interestingly enough, Muslims accept the virgin birth of Jesus. But of course, Abraham's wife gave birth when 90, which certainly is as miraculous.

Interestingly again, the Jews do NOT accept the virgin birth of Christ.

[cinch]

Re: My big problem with Christianity

Originally posted by The Templar
Can someone explain -

What was the point of the whole Jesus being Crucified thing? I know Jesus supposedly died for our sins, but

• How does one suffer in order to earn forgiveness for another for that other's sin? Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?
• God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

I don't get it.

Well, you see, Templar...

The God of the OT was not, in fact, the benevolent creator, but rather the Demiurge; scourge of mankind. He ruled man with an iron fist and brought death & destruction to humanity.

Jesus was either (A) the real creator, or (B) His messenger, and he came to show us the true path; the way of love and peace. This is why we must all abstain from sex and other earthly pleasures. We must stop bringing newborn children into this world, for that is what the Demiurge wants: new victims. This world is evil, and only through piousness and devotion to Christ will we be able to die properly and go to Heaven. If we die as the Demiurge wishes, we will simply be endlessly reincarnated into his evil existence.

So, to answer your questions:

(1) Individuals are indeed accountable for their sins, which is why they must strive to abstain from sin, and resist the Demiurge's advances.

(2) The Demiurge will not simply forgive man because he is malevolent; he wishes to see continued suffering rather than peace and love.


......



(I'm sorry if I've insulted any old-school Gnostics with my poor, poor attempt at imitation.)

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ming
The trinity has been confusing religious scholars for centuries

Perhaps because there's no scriptural basis for it.

Like the Christmas tree, the Easter egg and bunny, the three wise men, and so on and so on.

Just read the biography of Michael Servetus, judicially murdered by John Calvin.

The Lutheran reformer Melanchthon, commenting on Servetus's 'De Trinitatis Erroribus', lamented, "As for the Trinity you know I have always feared this would break out some day. Good God, what tragedies this question will excite among those who come after us!"

http://www.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articles/michaelservetus.html

Must be one of the few occasions the Calvinists conspired with the Holy Inquisition to try to get someone killed.

[Verto]

The trinity has been confusing religious scholars for centuries

Not always, though. The early Christian church and priests realized they were three distinct beings.

[Ben Kenobi]

God didn't grant him any super powers, he only granted him the supposedly true, perfect, and final message.

If all he has is his message, how would people know that the message comes from God?

[Ben Kenobi]

How is it possible for Christ to rise 3 days later and go around having tea with people as they cleaned his feet?

Japher:

We would not believe such a thing without the Gospels. There are no alternative explanations that fit the accounts better than the resurrection of Christ.

[cinch]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


If all he has is his message, how would people know that the message comes from God?

Because:

(A) He was just so damn charismatic and convincing.

(B) He lead the Arabs to surprising military and geopolitcal dominance in a short amount of time, and established an 'empire' that would influence the region for centuries to come.

There is dispute as to whether Jesus actually turned water into wine, or rose from the dead. There is very little dispute, however, that Mohammed led his people to victory at Mecca.

Go Muslim: It Just Makes Sense!

[Ben Kenobi]

it is too far fathced to think a man could be taken down from a cross, cause the Romans always make sure you are dead....

Yeah, and the Romans are just going to let the disciples close to Christ so that they can pull him off the cross. They poked his side with a spear and watched the blood and water run from the wound.

Tough you can say being chosen to be the one to write the Koran is miraculous, or the expansion of the Muslim faith under him is miraculous- he was a one man show, hwile it took paul to spread Jesus' message.

Mohammed failed miserably at his message until he started to allow people to raid and plunder caravans in the Mid-East.

Christianity, at least until Constantine, spread through the word, and not the sword, they did not need to force people to convert.

If you believe that Mohammed really wroe the final and absolute testimony, why are you not Moslem?