My big problem with Christianity

[The Templar]

Can someone explain -

What was the point of the whole Jesus being Crucified thing? I know Jesus supposedly died for our sins, but

• How does one suffer in order to earn forgiveness for another for that other's sin? Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?
• God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

I don't get it.

[Space05us]

its all about jelly beans.

[Jon Miller]

going to bed now

my take on it tomorrow

Jon Miller

[Ben Kenobi]

God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

That's a good question. It actually came up in my RCIA. I asked the question, but from the opposite perspective. How can a God who is all-good forgive sins without some kind of sacrifice? God hates sin, and someone has to pay the price.

The answer, is that God is all powerful. If he wanted to, he could indeed forgive sins. He is the one who is the offended party, thus he can choose to forgive the offender.

However, the question then becomes, why did God choose the route he did, to have his Son serve as the sacrifice for many?

There are several clues that allow us to approach the answer. First of all, you have to look at the Jewish sacrificial system. Jews would offer sacrifices, as a sign of their contrition, and their request for forgiveness. God does not need their sacrifices, but such sacrifices made it clear that sin is no trifling matter.

However, the problem with these sacrifices, is that they had to be repeated. As animals, they were imperfect, and could not cleanse man of his sins permanently. Only a perfect sacrifice could effect such redemption. This is where Christ comes in.

Christ offered himself, voluntarily, to be the sacrifice, and became a man. He suffered all the temptations of man, yet remained sinless. Thus, when men crucified him on the cross, he remained blameless, and could become the perfect sacrifice for sin.

CS Lewis puts this another way. In order for God to redeem man, he requires a bridge from God to man. Thus, Jesus had to be both God and man, in suffering all of our temptations, yet remaining sinless.

Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?

Yes, individuals are held responsible for their own sins. However, God has offered redemption to all those who believe in Christ. Those who refuse this offer of redemption, will remain in their sins, and be judged at the Second Coming.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The answer, is that God is all powerful. If he wanted to, he could indeed forgive sins.

The answer, is that God is all powerful. If he wanted to, he could indeed prevent sins.

Perhaps the concept of "sins" is merely a social construct by a bunch of bigoted people on a powerkick in awe that so many people will do what they say.

[Ben Kenobi]

Perhaps the concept of "sins" is merely a social construct by a bunch of bigoted people on a powerkick in awe that so many people will do what they say.

Social construct? Sins have nothing to do with society. They transcend society, and apply to everyone, regardless of where they live, and when they live.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Social construct? Sins have nothing to do with society. They transcend society, and apply to everyone, regardless of where they live, and when they live.

Sins have to do with morals, which have to do with society...

[Space05us]

I said it once, I'll say it again, it's all about the jelly beans!

[Ben Kenobi]

Right, but morality does not necessarily limit itself to one society.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Jeez... Asher's Christian bashing is just as bad as Christians bashing gays.

Right, but morality does not necessarily limit itself to one society.

Each morality does.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Jeez... Asher's Christian bashing is just as bad as Christians bashing gays.

Now what would be the point of that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Each morality does.

Not Christianity. Other moralities may limit themselves to a society, but Christianity applies to everyone.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Not Christianity. Other moralities may limit themselves to a society, but Christianity applies to everyone.

Christianity applies to Christians.

The Christians have a nasty habit to try to force everyone else to abide by their morals (hence the whole "codify the ban of gay marriages into law" bull****...).

The mere thought that Christian morals apply to everyone, while other societies' morals have limited scope, really shows how brainwashed you are and just how incapable you are at rational thought.

[Ben Kenobi]

force everyone else to abide by their morals

No. Everyone is free to accept or reject what Christianity believes. It still applies to everyone, even if they choose not to believe.

while other societies' morals have limited scope

Sure. Why should Sharia apply to you?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
No. Everyone is free to accept or reject what Christianity believes. It still applies to everyone, even if they choose not to believe.

Do you understand what morals are? Evidently not.

And if everyone was free to reject what Christianity believes, why can't I marry my boyfriend?

Sure. Why should Sharia apply to you?

I concede they have limited scope, all morals do. Including Christianity.

Only a moron with a clouded mind infused with bull**** bigotry from his Mennonite bretheren would think Christanity's morals are somehow superior and take precedence over everyone else's.