My big problem with Christianity

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
As for gay marriage, it's up to the people. If the people vote, and say they want gay marriage, then the state will have to abide by that change. I've said that throughout the threads I've posted.

But the people jumped on your ass on your attempts to give sociologic reasons explaining why gay marriage would be bad for society, as it would be bad for the institutions of marriage.
You still haven't prvoen your bold assertion that gay marriage devaluates marriage as we already know it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Christ did not suffer

Why do you say that, Jon?

He most certainly suffered on the cross.

[Ben Kenobi]

But this plainly contradicts the very words of the Bible or implies that God is not perfect and can change.

Ned:

Good point. However, this does not rule out God voluntarily limiting himself, in becoming a man.

your second point brings to light, 'this is my blood, which was shed for you, the blood of the new covenant.' However, you must remember, Christ physically died on the cross.

[Ben Kenobi]

You still haven't prvoen your bold assertion that gay marriage devaluates marriage as we already know it.

Prove? That's an interesteting word. Can I show you all the effects of that which has not happened yet? No. All I can do is argue that this would be the likely outcome.

However, there are many threads on this topic, yet only one of Christianity. Please keep discussion of that to those other threads.

[GePap]

What proof do you have BK that Mohammed was not the final prophet of God?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Prove? That's an interesteting word. Can I show you all the effects of that which has not happened yet? No. All I can do is argue that this would be the likely outcome.

Well, sorry, in my studes we too often take a valid argument for a "proof"

Please simply argue then that it will have dramatic consequences for marriage. For one, tell us what the consequences of gay marriage on hetero marriage will be, IYO. I'm curious to know if you have any argument to back your bold assertion.

[Japher]

They were all prophets. They all delivered a message of faith.

My problem with religion is that it is built on faith. Yet, most religious people seem really nice... right before the damn you to hell!!!!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Prove? That's an interesteting word. Can I show you all the effects of that which has not happened yet? No. All I can do is argue that this would be the likely outcome.

Now you're saying that you are a prophet, or some kind of fortune teller?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Why do you say that, Jon?

He most certainly suffered on the cross.

ok, yes He did suffer

but it was not the suffering that earned us forgiveness

JOn Miller

[Ben Kenobi]

Muhammed?

If you look at Moslem doctrine, they reject what I have posted that Jesus died on the cross, but rather that he survived, and the disciples rescued him. This has absolutely no basis, because the Roman soldiers, if they crucified someone, would make sure that they killed the person before letting him off the cross.

Thus, they reject the entire notion of the resurrection, and that Christ is the Son of God. If, and only if, Christ is just another of the Jewish prophets, can there be room for Muhammed.

Secondly, all prophets perform miracles of some sort to indicate their calling. Moses had his staff of snakes, Elijah, his burning fire. Muhammed performed no miracles during his time on Earth.

[Jon Miller]

because Mohammed did not agree with the Bible

Jon Miller

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
because Mohammed did not agree with the Bible

He sure agreed with the Old Testament very much.

[Japher]

If you look at Moslem doctrine, they reject what I have posted that Jesus died on the cross, but rather that he survived, and the disciples rescued him. This has absolutely no basis

Basis? What basis is there that Jesus DID die on the cross? It's a total he said, she said argument.

all prophets perform miracles of some sort to indicate their calling. Moses had his staff of snakes, Elijah, his burning fire. Muhammed performed no miracles during his time on Earth.

Muhammed didn't have any pyrotechnics thus he's not a prophet? How are we to know that Moses and Whalebow, I mean Elijah, really performed those miracles and just weren't legends added to a powerful prophet? Embelishments... Most of the bible is written centuries after the fact and on hersey.

But, I digress. Ffaith is something that cannot be tackled, it's like you saying this; "p", is the letter "p", and I say, "no it's not."

[Ben Kenobi]

Now you're saying that you are a prophet, or some kind of fortune teller?

No. Trying to imply the opposite, that it would take a prophet to show you all those effects.

Spiffor:

I think I've given a rational argument already, but go and post that question in one of those threads, and I'll answer it there.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I think I've given a rational argument already,

You are so full of yourself.