My big problem with Christianity

[Ben Kenobi]

I concede they have limited scope, all morals do. Including Christianity.

Now we have a real topic to debate!

Are there any objective morals that apply to all peoples?

I think I can find one. What about the principle, 'all people should be equal before the law?'

[Asher]

That doesn't apply to all people. There are countless cultures that treat men and women differently, for example.

Also, some primitive cultures treat people differently depending on the gender of their mate.

[Ben Kenobi]

There are countless cultures that treat men and women differently, for example.

So it would then be fine for our own culture to treat men and women differently, assuming morals are cultural?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So it would then be fine for our own culture to treat men and women differently, assuming morals are cultural?

Who said anything about something being fine?

You don't seem to comprehend the gravity of this debate. Saying something is "fine" or not is again a question of morals.

All I'm saying is different cultures, different religions, and different people all have different morals.

The concept that everyone in the world is subject to Christian morals is beyond ridiculous, but rather correct if you look at the legal system in the US where Christians have codified their morals into the law for the most part.

[Ben Kenobi]

The concept that everyone in the world is subject to Christian morals is beyond ridiculous,

Why is it ridiculous? What is wrong with the statement?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why is it ridiculous? What is wrong with the statement?

Hmm. What's not wrong with the statement?

[Ben Kenobi]

Someone needs to say that something is morally wrong.

You need objective morality in order to deny objective morality.

[Asher]

No, you don't. You can safely assume that if somebody never makes contact with any civilization, he does not follow Christian morals.

You're making this more complicated than it actually is, perhaps in a desperate act of smoke and mirrors.

[Ben Kenobi]

You can safely assume that if somebody never makes contact with any civilization, he does not follow Christian morals.

Thank you.

If God is omnipotent, then this assumption is not safe.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Thank you.

If God is omnipotent, then this assumption is not safe.

The assumption that God is omnipotent is not safe to begin with, therefore there is no reason we should expect God to be omnipotent and all people on this earth to have native Christian morals (particularly when evidence is to the contrary).

QED.

[germanos]

Re: My big problem with Christianity

Originally posted by The Templar
Can someone explain -

What was the point of the whole Jesus being Crucified thing? I know Jesus supposedly died for our sins, but

• How does one suffer in order to earn forgiveness for another for that other's sin? Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?
• God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

I don't get it.

Jesus did not die for anybodies individual's sin. He was sacrificed to lift humanity from the 'inherited' sin, that came upon humanity when Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge in Paradise.
God got pissed, and cursed Adam and Eve, and their offspring for all eterity, until he would send 'the Savior' to earth.
In essence, Jesus had to die because God, in a fit of anger, had decided to haunt humanity for the sin commited by the two imperfect creatures he made.


Why God put such emphasis on suffering and sacrifice for Mankind to be allowed (back) in Paradise is beyond me as well. I guess its the divine way to say 'Thank You'.

[joncha]

Oh! Oh! I have a profound theological question too!

Could God microwave a burrito that was so hot that even He could not eat it?

mmm, burritos...

jon.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: My big problem with Christianity

Originally posted by germanos
Jesus did not die for anybodies individual's sin. He was sacrificed to lift humanity from the 'inherited' sin, that came upon humanity when Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge in Paradise.

This is the part I don't get (actually, this is one of the parts I don't get ). Surely God knew what Adam and Eve were going to do -- even I predicted that they would eat from that tree. Com'on, see what happened when Ming made a thread and wrote "do not post in this thread?"

Originally posted by germanos
God got pissed, and cursed Adam and Eve, and their offspring for all eterity, until he would send 'the Savior' to earth.

Two problems here. One, even we do not hold people responsible for things their ancestors do. I assume YHWH is far more enlightened than us? Two, a lot of us did not choose to sin, so this posts a huge problem to the doctrine of freewill.

Originally posted by germanos
In essence, Jesus had to die because God, in a fit of anger, had decided to haunt humanity for the sin commited by the two imperfect creatures he made.

But... Jesus is also God as part of the Trinity, so why go about this in such an absolutely contrived fashion?

[germanos]

UR:

I do't get it either

God from the Old Testament isn't a very nice person. Rather vengefull (?) if you ask me.

'God made us all to be just like him. So if we're dumb, then God is dumb...'

-Frank Zappa: 'Dumb all over'

[JohnT]

Re: My big problem with Christianity

Originally posted by The Templar
Can someone explain -

What was the point of the whole Jesus being Crucified thing? I know Jesus supposedly died for our sins, but

• How does one suffer in order to earn forgiveness for another for that other's sin? Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?
• God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

I don't get it.

It's a guilt trip. We killed Gods son, you see, and now get to spend the rest of eternity feeling bad about it.