A Question for the Religious Types

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Am I the only one here that thinks that God, as depicted by Ben Kenobi, is a complete a55hole?

Here's a guy who says (to gays among others): "Okay, here's the deal: I'm going to lay down a list of rules I want you to obey, but then I'm going to create you in such a way as to be predisposed to break those rules. Then, you get to live for what is, to me, a mere moment, after which I'll see how you did with those rules, then consign you forever to either everlasting bliss or everlasting torment. And why am I doing this? Because even though I'm the all-powerful Lord of the Universe and you, by contrast, are nothing, I get really pissy if you don't revere me and do exactly as I say."

This is the guy I'm supposed to worship -- according to some versions of monotheism, with perpetual prayer? F*ck that. That's not God; that's a middle-school bully, and one that doesn't even have the advantage of being undeniably real.

[Ben Kenobi]

Rufus:

Here's the alternatives.

1. People are born with a fixed sexual orientation and stay that way for the rest of their life.

2. People start with no fixed sexual orientation, and pick which one they like.

I think that my predisposition hypothesis does a better job than either of these.

Okay, here's the deal: I'm going to lay down a list of rules I want you to obey, but then I'm going to create you in such a way as to be predisposed to break those rules. Then, you get to live for what is, to me, a mere moment, after which I'll see how you did with those rules, then consign you forever to either everlasting bliss or everlasting torment.

I think the key is in this part of the statement.

"a mere moment."

Yes, it is impossible for anyone to not sin in their time on Earth, but this too shall pass. Fortunately, for us, God judges us not on how we compare with others, but on how well we do with what we have. If you have a particularly rotten temperment, and yet you resist temptation, God understands the pain that you are currently suffering.

The key is to remind yourself, that our time on Earth passes away in a mere moment compared to our eternal reward. Things that seem to have a great hold on us in the short term, suddenly seem much less rewarding from the perspective of eternity.

Secondly, you are very right, that this God is cruel, since none of us can meet his law. This is why it is necessary for Christ to redeem each one of us, so that believing him, we receive salvation.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Am I the only one here that thinks that God, as depicted by Ben Kenobi, is a complete a55hole?

Here's a guy who says (to gays among others): "Okay, here's the deal: I'm going to lay down a list of rules I want you to obey, but then I'm going to create you in such a way as to be predisposed to break those rules. Then, you get to live for what is, to me, a mere moment, after which I'll see how you did with those rules, then consign you forever to either everlasting bliss or everlasting torment. And why am I doing this? Because even though I'm the all-powerful Lord of the Universe and you, by contrast, are nothing, I get really pissy if you don't revere me and do exactly as I say."

This is the guy I'm supposed to worship -- according to some versions of monotheism, with perpetual prayer? F*ck that. That's not God; that's a middle-school bully, and one that doesn't even have the advantage of being undeniably real.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Rufus:

Here's the alternatives.

1. People are born with a fixed sexual orientation and stay that way for the rest of their life.

2. People start with no fixed sexual orientation, and pick which one they like.

I think that my predisposition hypothesis does a better job than either of these.

Perhaps. But you ignore...

3. Sexuality is so enormously complex that we really don't understand it at all, and so subjecting it to superstitious prejudices originating a couple of thousand years ago -- with people who killed animals and isolated their menstruating women in outbuildings in order to please their Sky-God -- just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Drake Tungsten]

and isolated their menstruating women in outbuildings in order to please their Sky-God

Hey, if the Sky-God was smart enough to protect us all from PMS, I'm all about a return to paganism.

[Asher]

If you go gay, you're protected from PMS.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Asher
If you go gay, you're protected from PMS.

Spoken like a man without a sister

[Ben Kenobi]

3. Sexuality is so enormously complex that we really don't understand it at all,

so subjecting it to superstitious prejudices

In the absence of knowledge, why is the religious perspective mere superstition? How can the so-called scientific views carry more weight?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




In the absence of knowledge, why is the religious perspective mere superstition? How can the so-called scientific views carry more weight?

Scientists know they don't know. The religious and superstitious don't know that they don't know, because they conflate belief with knowledge.

[TheStinger]

I'm not religious, however if i was i would think that God never said anything about Gay people, rather it has been addedd by the authors of variuos religious texts who of course also said slavery was ok and women should be treated like dirt.

[Elok]

Eh, if you're going to get all spiritual-angsty, why don't you ask why God made people who are predisposed to more serious and obvious vices, like sociopaths, voyeurs, kleptos, sexual arsonists or child molesters? Why would he make people with bad tempers, or babies with heroin addictions? Variety? Idunno. This is usually where the devil comes into the argument. Barring that, it may be worth noting that many mental disorders(I'm not saying homosexuality is one, this is a metaphor) have advantages and disadvantages. A Christian might say that God made these people with INCREDIBLE fashion sense, and they perverted their gift for evil ends. [/Casual devil's advocate]
C'mon, raise sensible objections, people.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

But it still comes down to saying, "we're not really sure why homosexuals exist, what makes them homosexuals, and whether there existence has any larger purpose. So, until we have a better understanding of that, we're sticking with the beliefs of folks who also thought that the sun revolved around the earth and society was best governed by patriachal clans."

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I'm not religious, however if i was i would think that God never said anything about Gay people, rather it has been addedd by the authors of variuos religious texts who of course also said slavery was ok and women should be treated like dirt.

People who live from the Old Testament are remembering Sodom and Gomorrah.
As a Christian, my contention is that Christ's birth changed how redemption is given.

[Elok]

What do scientific or governmental beliefs have to do with spirituality or ethics? There were lots of brilliant physicists working for the Nazis, and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. It's not very nice to make personal attacks against dead people who can't fight back, now, is it?

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


People who live from the Old Testament are remembering Sodom and Gomorrah.
As a Christian, my contention is that Christ's birth changed how redemption is given.

Good point, that I think is something that the condemers and accusers tend to forget.