A Question for the Religious Types

[Asmodean]

For this post, I'm going to assume that religious=Christian.

I am not religious. I do not believe in God, or the holy spirit. Jesus is a well documented historical figure, so I'd be stupid if I said that I do not believe in him But I most certainly do not believe that he was the son of God.

Furthermore, I think that homosexuality is yucky. Not like "ooops I got urine on my fingers, I gotta wash my hands" yucky. No more like "someone is forcing me to drink dark ale mixed with vomit and tuna" yucky. I think that most people feel that way. It's a question of what we are brought up to believe/feel. No offense, Asher. But I really feel that.

But what I also believe, is that homosexuals have every possible and even impossible right to be homosexuals, practice homosexuality, live homosexuality and dress homosexual whereever, whenever and with whomever they want to (as long as it's okay with the other guy ).

Now for the religious part. Religious people probably feel the same way that I do. They are repulsed by what they see. Hell, they even have a bible that says that it is bad (a bible written by dudes that probably felt the same way about homosexuality). So being religious people, they want to make homosexuals see the error of their ways, and show them how wonderful life would be, if they would just give up on homosexuality, and embrace Jesus.

So thwarted are theur minds, that they actually belive that homosexuals will be happier with God, than they are with being gay.

So I don't think that religious people think that homosexuals are worse sinners than, say, thieves or murderers. They are just doing what they do best: Trying to mold other people in their own images.

Asmodean

[Imran Siddiqui]

Calling Imran a Muslim Cowboy is way out of order

Especially since I'm not a "Muslim" , due to the fact that the Islamic religion doesn't believe it is a race, like Judaism does.

[Ben Kenobi]

They are just doing what they do best: Trying to mold other people in their own images.

Asmodean:

So why then are we called 'Christians' and servants of Christ, if we are simply trying to mould people in our own image?

I thought it was an accepted fact that the Old and New Testaments have suffered from alterations - intentionally and unintentionally...

Verto:

On minor details, like some of the temple measurements in the OT, or in some cases, where we don't really understand the Hebrew word, like the construction of the Ark.

But on what God says about homosexuality as sin? No. There is no evidence to suggest that this was added later to the bible.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Verto:

On minor details, like some of the temple measurements in the OT, or in some cases, where we don't really understand the Hebrew word, like the construction of the Ark.

But on what God says about homosexuality as sin? No. There is no evidence to suggest that this was added later to the bible.

I would agree with you with the second part, but must disagree with the first - the Bible has been altered to a greater extent than that.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Asmodean:

So why then are we called 'Christians' and servants of Christ, if we are simply trying to mould people in our own image?

Ben: First remember that I'm talking about fundamentalism here. I have no way of knowing if you are one, or even if you accept the term.

Second, with no exception, the strongly religious people I have met were missionaries in some way or another. And frankly, that pisses me off. Sure, okay, you like your religion, and up to a point I will listen to how wonderful you think it is, but at some point , you're just going to have to accept that I am not a willing recipient, and move on to other subjects. Sadly most religious people fail to do that.

There are things that I care deeply about, but I can talk about other things. In my view, religious people care deeply about their beliefs, and can not talk about other things.

Whether you are servants of Christ or not, I really don't care. But I do think that you are trying to make the world what you want it to be.

Asmodean

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
So you weren't being a snot in the previous thread? Calling Imran a Muslim Cowboy is way out of order - he's a nice guy and in no way deserves to be treated like that. How many of the Christians here have come out and called you a "****ing Sodomite"? None, because they're all polite people.

How is that even remotely comparable?
If I listened and harped about how great country music was, you could call me a gay cowboy all you like.

The comparable "****ing Sodomite" comment would be "****ing Muslim", which would entirely be out of line.

So complaining about racial slurs made against other posters and constant abuse and thread wrecking is being the thought police?

What racial slur?
And it was my thread, the person who wrecked it was you who kept trolling that I apparently had no right to be upset by how lots of hardcore Christian treat gays.

You are a pretentious *******, Agathon. You constantly twist and manipulate everything until you think you win, then you gloat.

There were no "racial slurs", the closest thing would be a "muslim cowboy" comment which perfectly describes a muslim who advocates country music as far as I'm concerned, and is certainly no slur -- in the same way "gay cowboy" or "Christian cowboy" is no slur. Further, you never once complained about that until just now, and yet you used it in your justification for your spammy threadjack.

You really need to learn a lot about making an argument, especially for someone who is teaching that crap. I imagine you are on a short-term contract until you're done your graduate work, and would not make for a real prof...

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asmodean
But I do think that you are trying to make the world what you want it to be.

Asmodean

Isn't that what everyone does? Asher tries to make the world into what he wants it to be - a place where homosexuals are 'accepted', for lack of better word, and where the general population is a slave to MS( )

Others work to make the world more Communistic, more peaceful, more environmentally responsible. The list goes on forever.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Verto


Isn't that what everyone does?

Not this much, no. I wouldn't ever dream of condemning anybody for doing anything that isn't strictly prohibited by the laws of Denmark.

Asmodean

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Asmodean
For this post, I'm going to assume that religious=Christian.

I am not religious.



Asmodean

You're a perfect example of why people ignorant on a subject shouldn't speak to it.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Verto


I would agree with you with the second part, but must disagree with the first - the Bible has been altered to a greater extent than that.

the old testament has changed very little in over 2000 years

the new testament has changed very little in over 1500 years

and evidence is lacking to support changes or lack of changes previous to that

as such, I don't see how you can say (or anyone else) about alterations when there is no evidence (like large numbers of prealteration texts)

while many theologians do think that there were alterations (even of the drastic sort)

there is no direct evidence of any

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asmodean



Not this much, no. I wouldn't ever dream of condemning anybody for doing anything that isn't strictly prohibited by the laws of Denmark.

Asmodean

aren't you getting after christians for trying to make the world the way they want it to be?

isn't that the same as trying to make the world the way you want it to be?

(BTW, sorry about the recent thread jacks, if we want to continue this we should start a new thread, this is about religion and homosexuality)

jon Miller

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

And it was my thread, the person who wrecked it was you who kept trolling that I apparently had no right to be upset by how lots of hardcore Christian treat gays.

A lot of typing would be saved if you would grow up and realise that typing "**** you!" when other people are trying to politely discuss their views, even if it offends you, is a despicable way to behave and no way to conduct a reasonable discussion.

[SlowwHand]

The Bible changes versions to pattern the speech of the day, to make it easier to read.

[Asmodean]

So you never make assumptions, Slowwhand?

I didn't include any other religions, because they were not relevant to the point i wanted to make.

Please don't try to lecture me on methods.

For the record, I meant no disrespect to any religions, but I have to write based on me experience, and since I have never actually met a Jew, and know next to nothing about their attitudes towards gay people, I felt that it would be wrong to include Judaism in my post. Same goes for islamic.

Asmodean

[Agathon]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The Bible changes versions to pattern the speech of the day, to make it easier to read.

Sometimes badly as in the substitution of "In the beginning was the Word" for "en arche en ho logos".