Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

[blackice]

Asuka yet another example of the lack of humanity in the human beast. I bet you belong to save the animals foundation? Again justify it as you will. An unborn human is just that, go kill a few feel the power. You just lead us back to parasites and animals...

st_swithin it takes two to tango it also takes two to raise the child, todays society would have us believe only one has the rights and or the ability to say live or die. One has to assume then if the male partner has no say what so ever then the female partner must then assume all responsibility. This of course is wrong and hopefully will change for the betterment of the children involved. Born or unborn.

DNA is a godsend for those close to 1 million men paying child support for children who are not thiers also...

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless

How far do you want to take this?

No medical assistance for the victims of car crashes. Let them stay trapped in the wreckage until they bleed to death or die of thirst. It's their fault for being on the road.

Abolish fire-fighters. Nobody should live in inflammable buildings, smoke, use gas for heating or cooking, own faulty electrical appliances, or light bonfires. Let these people burn.

Abolish the military and police. Anyone who can't defend his own property deserves to lose it. They shouldn't own so much stuff anyhow.

what inane examples. I know ur trying to just be argumentative. but like anyone would just give ur ass an F here.

do u really want me to respond? or is this just so we can get to 500 posts?

[Gibsie]

st_swithin, what the Hell is your damn problem?! Whether a foetus is a parasite or not is immaterial, it still does what it does either way. You might find, however, that some people do not like foetuses insulted simply because of their nature- even if it technically a parasite or not, it's still offensive to refer to a foetus as a parasite, just as if you were to refer to the child of an unmarried parent as a bastard. You might want to grow up a little yourself and look beyond the black and white world your mind seems to live in.

And before you get all high and mighty because I called women "whores" who "spread their legs" you might want to actually take a look at my posts a bit harder because I put them in speech marks just like you did to express my disdain for those terms thrown around by pro-lifers.

I would add a joke about how it must be your time of the month, but instead I'm just curious why you responded so angrily to me when I am one of the last people here who would throw around blame to pregnant women.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by st_swithin
If it gets ratified that my embryo has the same rights I do, then it should get the fvck out of my uterus and get its own goddam apartment and get a job.

I'm REFUSE to support it - I'd want an abortion, but OOOOOooOOOOOh NOOOO - some a55hole decides that after he sticks his **** somewhere that everything that comes out afterwards is his.

Out of spite, I'd sh1t the little monster out and send it to live with its biological Dad.

Well, here ya go. *POOF!*

How's that prostate feeling now? Gosh, that sure is going to hurt on the way out, huh?

someone feeling a lil oppressed today?

[Az]

I've always been rather split on this issue...
...after reading this thread, I am inclined to agree more with the anti-abortion arguement. maybe I'll pick it up next time the issue pops up.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by blackice

DNA is a godsend for those close to 1 million men paying child support for children who are not thiers also...

Wasn't there a recent court decision that a non-biological father might still be responsible for the support of a child whom he had effectively acted as the father for a certain period of time even?

[Az]

Even if he didn't know it was not his son?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Azazel
Even if he didn't know it was not his son?

Yep, apparently so. There is an old standard of law that you cannot voluntarily deprive a person of the standard of living they have become accustomed to. That's why when you marry into a wealthy family you are generally held to be entitled to a good chunk of the horde no matter what.

[blackice]

Dr Strangelove: Yes can you imagine a decision like this? Picture this woman tells man they are your children. DNA test says they are not... who are the victims and who is the criminal? Yet no charges are laid and who suffers... 30% of the so-called "primary care-givers" perpetrate this fraud on thier children for the love of cash. The longer they can maintain this ruse the more likely they are to reap the rewards. What other crime towards children let alone a crime in general can you think of, where the longer you do it the more likely your chances of the law siding with you?

Men wage battle on 'paternity fraud'
By Martin Kasindorf, USA TODAY
An acid sense of betrayal has been gnawing at Damon Adams since a DNA test showed that he is not the father of a 10-year-old girl born during his former marriage.
"Something changes in your heart," says Adams, 51, a dentist in Traverse City, Mich. "When she walks through the door, you're seeing the product of an affair."

But Michigan courts have spurned the DNA results Adams offered in his motions to stop paying $23,000 a year in child support. Now, Adams is lobbying the state Legislature for relief and joining other men in a national movement against what they call "paternity fraud."

In almost a dozen states, men have won the right to use conclusive genetic tests to end their financial obligations to children they didn't father. But women's groups and many public officials responsible for enforcing child support are battling the movement, which they say imperils children.

Most states design their family laws to protect what they call "the interests of the child." That means siding with the child's financial and emotional needs and against supposed fathers who want to avoid paying for tricycles and braces.

Taxpayers also have a big stake in child support collections, which have grown to$18 billion annually and cover 20 million children. If men who are paying child support no longer have to and authorities can't find the real fathers, welfare agencies will get the bill for family assistance.

Many men who feel deceived by a woman are in no mood to accept a legal system that doesn't recognize DNA science in such cases. "It's like they are saying, 'Let your wife cheat on you, have children by other men, divorce you, and now you have to pay for it all,' " says Air Force Master Sgt. Raymond Jackson, 43. California judges won't consider tests he says prove that the three children of his former 10-year marriage were fathered by other men.

Fraud, mistakes

There are signs of substantial fraud or mistakes in identifying fathers in child support disputes. The American Association of Blood Banks says the 300,626 paternity tests it conducted on men in 2000 ruled out nearly 30% as the father.

The legal doctrines raising barriers to DNA testing on paternity questions are formidable. In 30 states, married men face a 500-year-old legal presumption that any child born during a marriage is the husband's. The concept, based in English law, is aimed at preventing children from being branded illegitimate. Nebraska's Supreme Court ruled last week that an ex-husband who is not a child's father cannot sue the mother to recover child support payments.

The law is more flexible for men who admit to fathering a child out of wedlock but then change their minds or who are named by the mother. But they have only brief opportunities to deny paternity. Florida allows a year after a child support order, California two years after a birth.

Many unwed fathers paying child support have never admitted paternity. A 1996 federal welfare law requires a woman to name a father — no questions asked — when she applies for public assistance. A court summons can be mailed to the man's last known address. Many men don't get the notice. The result: The paychecks of 527,224 men in California, for example, are being docked under "default" judgments of paternity that can't be contested after six months.

Men who urge use of DNA cite a precedent: DNA's increasing impact in murder and rape cases.

"Think of it. I can get out of jail for murder based on DNA evidence, but I can't get out of child support payments," says Bert Riddick, 42, a computing teacher in Carson, Calif.

Riddick is paying $1,400 a month for a teenage girl born out of wedlock whom he's never met. Strapped, he and his wife are living with in-laws. Their three children, ages 3 to 11, cram into one room. He lost his driver's license for missing support payments and rides a bus 75 minutes to work.

Families are more complicated than who's biologically related to whom," says Valerie Ackerman, staff director for the National Center for Youth Law in Oakland. "If there has been a relationship between a father and child, the man can't just abdicate the responsibility that he's taken on."

Supporters of current law say the interests of the child should trump a man's concern for his wallet. "The other guy is somewhere over the hill and long gone," says Jenny Skoble, an attorney at the Harriet Buhai Center for Family Law in Los Angeles. "If it comes down to whether the only (available) father is going to be on the hook to pay money or this kid is going to be in the situation of having no father, I'd say we have to put the child first."

The link

"I don't mind helping this child," Connors says, "but I have no choice. And that, because someone lied to me and defrauded me many years ago, is not fair."

The link

He has paid 88,000 dollars to this time. The worst crime is when the parent has never seen or even be allowed to raise thier child, yet paid. The numbers, close to 80% of all cases...

We've come a long way baby....

[st_swithin]

All humans with a penis and/or testicles should NOT be allowed to have an opinion on being pregnant, since it is still physically impossible for them to do so. So yavoon, ye may merrily fvcketh offeth.

I'll be so happy to watch your reaction as I slowly torture to death someone you dearly love, with you as the sole audience member.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by st_swithin
All humans with a penis and/or testicles should NOT be allowed to have an opinion on being pregnant, since it is still physically impossible for them to do so. So yavoon, ye may merrily fvcketh offeth.

I'll be so happy to watch your reaction as I slowly torture to death someone you dearly love, with you as the sole audience member.

u just circumvented the language code on this forum.

that and ur seething hatred for men is anti climatic. I have no need to argue w/ someone who is as emotionally biased as that.

[st_swithin]

Tell you what - you can have my ENTIRE childhood from the day I was born until the day after my 16th birthday, and we'll see how 'biased' you get.

Wanna buy the rights to that?!?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by st_swithin
Tell you what - you can have my ENTIRE childhood from the day I was born until the day after my 16th birthday, and we'll see how 'biased' you get.

Wanna buy the rights to that?!?

hate urself as well as all men. I'm not too big on the self loathing(I'm libertarian after all). I also fail to see what point u r trying to make besides drumming up sympathy for wutever gender induced atrocities u suffered.

[st_swithin]

FVCK YOU. I've NEVER tried to gain sympathy from ANYONE, EVER. I DO know that my life has given me the unique perspective that I may call MY OWN, just as you call your opinion YOUR OWN.

But honestly, you're not worthy of knowing anything about me. You shall never know me, and you shall always pine after me. Why else would you so pointedly provoke negative responses? You can't have my hatred, so instead you get INDIFFERENCE. Bye bye!

[yavoon]

Originally posted by st_swithin
FVCK YOU. I've NEVER tried to gain sympathy from ANYONE, EVER. I DO know that my life has given me the unique perspective that I may call MY OWN, just as you call your opinion YOUR OWN.

But honestly, you're not worthy of knowing anything about me. You shall never know me, and you shall always pine after me. Why else would you so pointedly provoke negative responses? You can't have my hatred, so instead you get INDIFFERENCE. Bye bye!

that was amusing.