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Az · August 11, 2003, 03:44

Originally posted by st_swithin
All humans with a penis and/or testicles should NOT be allowed to have an opinion on being pregnant, since it is still physically impossible for them to do so. So yavoon, ye may merrily fvcketh offeth.

chill, st_swithin.

**Atahualpa** · August 11, 2003, 06:43

Azazel what convinces you that the anti-abortion side has the better arguments?

All they are saying is that it is murder blahblahblah. Refering to an ethical code that they **** up completely everywhere else in their lives. What is with support of underdeveloped countries? Africans dying because of war, yet weapons are sold to those countries, do you support it? Collateral damage - a necessary thing - right to life? Still agree with republican or democratic bigotry. Dont you smell some hypocrisy here?

I dont think any ethical argument is valid from such persons. Those people I cant really take serious. Besides there are always more important things to raise ones voice than in a stupid abortion discussion (where the sole argument is MURDER vs. CHOICE).
Its a really nice position anti-abortionists put themselves into. Sit in their big chair and cry murder not thinking at all the "consequences" an anti-abortion would be like. It takes two people to **** and I guess more often men have turned down women than vice-versa. But then again nobody has made an outcry yet that a man MUST live with the woman he made the child with and devote his whole life in raising this child. But of course we expect that behavior from a women whose child isnt even born.

Nah people thats where I say: NO!

ata

**Atahualpa** · August 11, 2003, 06:48

Or the best response was when someone suggested forcing to give birth to children and then releasing them for adoption.
It's so sad I can't even laugh about it.

Az · August 11, 2003, 07:13

This post just convinces me more, Ata. You've branded all the anti-abortionists as a bunch of rednecks/conservatives/whatever, and then proceeded to make this question a non-issue.

For example, I am for support of undeveloped countries, but not in form of giving them money, but in offering them the introduction of norms of government and society which have worked for the better for us. This would include financial aid, as well, but only if given in the form of a package deal it would work.

But let's not go there, since it would be threadjacking.

Basically, I am a utilitarian. I don't believe in rights, not even in the right for life. But, this also includes the happiness and the utility of humans, even if it is in the future. If you do think that a person has some right over their body, than I sure you wouldn't oppose the organ tranplant trade, the use of all substances, prostitution, etc. ( I am actually pro-prositution legalization, but for reasons of utility. )

So, now, we have to figure out, what's the best way to achieve utility. would abortion on demand be the utilitarian approach? I don't think so.

About the rights and obligations of men and women over children, I believe they should be equal. Obviously, the expectant mother is unable to work, so temporary disability must be granted for the period of expecting birth, and some time after that, as well. from that time, and afterwards, rights and obligations must be the same.

Am I about to be labled a fascist/conservative/religious zealot now?

**Zylka** · August 11, 2003, 07:44

Originally posted by Atahualpa

All they are saying is that it is murder blahblahblah. Refering to an ethical code that they **** up completely everywhere else in their lives. What is with support of underdeveloped countries? Africans dying because of war, yet weapons are sold to those countries, do you support it? Collateral damage - a necessary thing - right to life? Still agree with republican or democratic bigotry. Dont you smell some hypocrisy here?

I dont think any ethical argument is valid from such persons.

That's really great that you've entered this debate with a pre-determined characterization/stereotype for your ENTIRE opposition. Well done generalizing the opinions of a huge portion of the population in one fell swoop!

**Zylka** · August 11, 2003, 07:53

Originally posted by st_swithin
All humans with a penis and/or testicles should NOT be allowed to have an opinion on being pregnant, since it is still physically impossible for them to do so. So yavoon, ye may merrily fvcketh offeth.

I'll be so happy to watch your reaction as I slowly torture to death someone you dearly love, with you as the sole audience member.

Darling, this has nothing to do with the creep(s) who made you miserable, or the fact that (they were) male. Not all men are evil simply because of your experiences with them.

Furthermore, the anti-abortion argument does not simply stem from wanting you to suffer. It most often arises out of the genuine fear or outright belief that this is possibly (or) murder, and that nothing justifies the murder of an innocent.

It takes one to spread the legs, another to stick it in - yet apparently only the former has a voice in the possibility of murder? Why do you label all men as unworthy to this basic cry?

**tinyp3nis** · August 11, 2003, 07:57

I'm bored so I'll ask.

So, now, we have to figure out, what's the best way to achieve utility. would abortion on demand be the utilitarian approach? I don't think so.

Why? Who will be unhappy? You?

Its MURDER!!!

**Rasbelin** · August 11, 2003, 08:28

Thank God I don't live in a country where the legislation regarding abortions has been dictated by Zylka/Azazel/Cybershy/whoever-being-against-abortions. Now if we just could get rid of those Christian Democrats...

Az · August 11, 2003, 08:32

Why? Who will be unhappy? You?

no, the child. The fact that he misses the joys of life counts, as well. death while sleeping is painless, too, but killing people in their sleep is still unethical.

Az · August 11, 2003, 08:40

Originally posted by Asuka
Thank God I don't live in a country where the legislation regarding abortions has been dictated by Zylka/Azazel/Cybershy/whoever-being-against-abortions. Now if we just could get rid of those Christian Democrats...

**tinyp3nis** · August 11, 2003, 08:51

The fact that he misses the joys of life counts.

You think we should make as much people on this planet it can hold and none less? There are people missing happiness if there is still room. Do you think it's wrong to of me not to have any children, I don't want to.

**Rasbelin** · August 11, 2003, 08:54

This planet is anyway getting overpopulated, so at some point we may anyway start seeing restrictions on who may have children and how many per woman. That's also one of the realities. So after all the whole abortion issue is quite easy solvable, if looking at it like an Ecoist. We have to limit the number of people born. Very simple fact.

**Zylka** · August 11, 2003, 08:57

Originally posted by Asuka
This planet is anyway getting overpopulated, so at some point we may anyway start seeing restrictions on who may have children and how many per woman. That's also one of the realities. So after all the whole abortion issue is quite easy solvable, if looking at it like an Ecoist. We have to limit the number of people born. Very simple fact.

LMFAO - Who's the one trying to control women, here???

**Rasbelin** · August 11, 2003, 09:12

I was just stating facts about how the future could very possibly look like. Not my personal opinions.

**Rasbelin** · August 11, 2003, 09:13

Who's the one trying to control women, here???

That's what you are doing too, Zylka. Preventing abortions and free choice by sane people.

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