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For some reason, Jimmy Eat World's "The Middle" seems very appropriate right now.
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Hey Awrence, I suggest you check out the link in my signature for the Venezuelan opposition movement.
Maybe you should remove that quote of Fidel in your sig.. he is an old fart with dumb ideas.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Interesting interpretation, but don't you think that Marx predicted a collapse of capitalism due to the shrinking of the middle class.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Where does it say it won't? Where does it say that all of the middle classes will disappear? Frankly, one can infer from Marx's use of the word previous, bisherige, that there are other existing middle classes, which are not sinking into the proletariat. Otherwise, why use the word? He also doesn't write of a single middle class, but many middle classes.
The point is, people counter-pose the growth of a large "middle class" to Marx's claim that the middle classes were disapearing. Marx made no claim that all middle clases were disappearing nor that new middle classes wouldn't appear. What he wrote, specifically, as that specific, previously existing, middle classes were disappearing. And they are.
It's kinda like saying Marx was wrong for not predicting that the moon wasn't made of green cheese. Where did ever ever say it was?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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There is a slight problem.. the middle class was not and is not shrinking in the developed world.Originally posted by Kidicious
Interesting interpretation, but don't you think that Marx predicted a collapse of capitalism due to the shrinking of the middle class. It has been growing consistently since the industrial revolution.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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The problem isn't in the middle class. The problem is with the unskilled class or less skilled class if you will. The jobs for this class are disappearing. Training these people isn't a solution because there are limited opportinites for skilled labor. So what will happen to the jobless class of people in the future.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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It is sad to see people like this.. the jobs for this class are gone in Spain.. we have a base for educated people only. Sure there are some jobs like public work jobs, like driving around street cleaners.. but these jobs are terrible. Our country is European, capitalist and strong yet it has a base only for educated people. Everybody in Spain has a good education (with the exception of illegals who work in public work projects like street cleaning). We had 20% unemployment because of the lack of jobs for the educated in 1996, today we have 10% unemployment. This is because of conservative economic reforms.Originally posted by Kidicious
The problem isn't in the middle class. The problem is with the unskilled class or less skilled class if you will. The jobs for this class are disappearing. Training these people isn't a solution because there are limited opportinites for skilled labor. So what will happen to the jobless class of people in the future. So the problem is insigificant and will not be abled to cause a revolution.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Not yet, but things are getting worse. We are just beginning to feel the consequences. We'll see after this decade how people feel about it. Damn, then there is the next decade where govts are going to have so much trouble paying the bills. Che gives it till the middle of the century when demands falls off due to declining population, but what about the drop off in demand caused by the declining work force.Originally posted by Fez
This is because of conservative economic reforms. So the problem is insigificant and will not be abled to cause a revolution.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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No things are not getting worse.Originally posted by Kidicious
Not yet, but things are getting worse.
We have managed to reduce our deficit with conservative minded reforms.We are just beginning to feel the consequences. We'll see after this decade how people feel about it. Damn, then there is the next decade where govts are going to have so much trouble paying the bills.
The Spanish Population is already in decline.. I actually predict an ultra-nationalist backlash giving way to far-right governments and a rebirth in population growth in Europe that is. Not communist ones.Che gives it till the middle of the century when demands falls off due to declining population, but what about the drop off in demand caused by the declining work force.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Let me clarify.. in conservative countries like Spain and Italy, ultranationalism will be on the rise. I think in more liberal countries there may be more socialist governments, though not hardline communist ones. Ultranationalism is something you must brace for being stronger than communism even you are seeing this already in many euro countries.. Would I support an ultra-nationalist movement? If i didn't have a choice, yes i would.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Fascist. Your movement will be based on hate and will try to eliminate the jobless class. Is that what you want.Originally posted by Fez
Would I support an ultra-nationalist movement? If i didn't have a choice, yes i would.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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No. Marx "predicted" the failure of capitalism because of the periodic crises of overproduction. The alternative he though we would not chose, that of barbarism. Consider how much space he devotes to the disappearance of the middle classes in his writings. There are only two lines about it in the whole of the Manifesto. Capital and his other economic writings deal with commodity production, showing how it arose, what forms it takes, and why it "necessarily" leads to a new stage of society.Originally posted by Kidicious
Interesting interpretation, but don't you think that Marx predicted a collapse of capitalism due to the shrinking of the middle class.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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The later is the other side of the coin of the crisis of overproduction. Why is it overproduction, because there is not enough consumption. The fall in demand because of the contraction of the labor force generally preceeds a recession. This is eventually overcome once enough unproductive capital is cleared away. Boom-bust cycle in 25 cents.Originally posted by Kidicious
Che gives it till the middle of the century when demands falls off due to declining population, but what about the drop off in demand caused by the declining work force.
The cessation of growth in the world population I see as a much more serious problem for capitalism. Perpetually falling demand must necessarily spell the end of capitalism, unless there is global war, which can clear away enough capital so there is room to grow again.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Yes, but the crisis creates unemployment. Are you considering unemployed people middle class?Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No. Marx "predicted" the failure of capitalism because of the periodic crises of overproduction.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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I agree with your point. I just see big problems for capitalism before that time.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The later is the other side of the coin of the crisis of overproduction. Why is it overproduction, because there is not enough consumption. The fall in demand because of the contraction of the labor force generally preceeds a recession. This is eventually overcome once enough unproductive capital is cleared away. Boom-bust cycle in 25 cents.
The cessation of growth in the world population I see as a much more serious problem for capitalism. Perpetually falling demand must necessarily spell the end of capitalism, unless there is global war, which can clear away enough capital so there is room to grow again.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Who needs them! They lack conviction for any political ideal and are therefore useless.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Those on the fences and lurkers thinking about socialism.Comment
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