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(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within." -
Hate to break this to you, but the guys name is Friedrich EngelsOriginally posted by chegitz guevara
I'm willing to wager I've read more of Marx and Engles than you.
Neither Marx, nor Engles (nor for that matter, Lenin) believe in universal poverty or that everything should be distributed equally, at least not until the 2nd stage of communism, when production has been increased to the point that there is more than enough for anyone. Engles talks ...
Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.Comment
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Bull****. USSR stole almost EVERYTHING they claimed to have invented. Jeez, even car designs! What's so high tech about a shape of a car?Originally posted by Kidicious
The USSR made huge strides in technology while it was communist. The US was ahead in technology because it started out ahead.Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.Comment
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it was america's free enterprise that sustained an economy large enuff to fund NASA. and in general just outproduce all of russia. I know its tongue and cheek, but its way too inane to let go.Originally posted by The Templar
This is precisely the sort of thing that kills me when captitalists tout their system. Whatever else you say about the Soviet Union, it did manage to accelerate Russia and Co. right out of the middle ages and into leaders of the age - the leader in fact, in terms of space and missile technology for awhile. It was only GOVERNMENT programs like the Air Force and NASA that brought parity between the US and USSR technologically.
So much for free enterprise and advancement!
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I'd hardly call America true capitalism. If you want the closest to sustainable true capitalism, you will need a form of communism called anarcho-communism, an interpretation of the Mill Limit.it was america's free enterprise that sustained an economy large enuff to fund NASA. and in general just outproduce all of russia. I know its tongue and cheek, but its way too inane to let go.
Communism can certainly allow free enterprise, as indeed it should, up to a point (that point lying where capitalism hurts people and breaches the Mill Limit).
I wish people on the right, or generally American victrionics would discuss communism proper, not merely that poor interpretation of it that was the Soviet Union, and then strawman that form of authoritarianism saying it is communism, or indeed representative of communism
. Sorry but it simply is not the case.
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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Fez you know some corperations give all their workers shock, so each worker owns part of the company and share the profits. Also if the workers have enough shares they can even have a vote, a strong one in the company. Of course their is still a CEO and broad of directors. So in a sense in some companies this is being done, allthough I dont know how sucessfull it has been.Originally posted by Fez
Sorry but the workers cannot have control of the company or there will be problems. If each worker can exert an equal voice, the company will collapse.
As for the rest of you who want corperations to be more democratic, first off I think that you are capitalists, that is not ture Communism, but I see how you try to avoid government controll and let the workers controll the company and let corperations stay in place. Well there is some communism in that. I would say though what about the people who put their lives work into the company or investors that have risked lots of their money to buy the shock of the company? Should not they also have just as much a say in how the company is run? ALso remember the goal any company is to make money.Comment
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Communism can allow free enterprise.. since when? It doesn't want land to be sold as a commodity, as it should be. Capitalism hurts people? Since when?
I believe all forms of communism would eventually degenerate into a Soviet style dictatorship, whether you want it to or not.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Correct me if this is wrong, but doesn't that have something to do with those 401k plans? I am not sure what those are but I been hearing about them.Originally posted by Jack_www
Fez you know some corperations give all their workers shock, so each worker owns part of the company and share the profits. Also if the workers have enough shares they can even have a vote, a strong one in the company. Of course their is still a CEO and broad of directors. So in a sense in some companies this is being done, allthough I dont know how sucessfull it has been.
Albeit very little. In fact I wouldn't call it communism, but a mixed form of moderate socialism. Even socialism is too strong of a word....Well there is some communism in that.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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It is not 401k plans. I know some airlines, i forgot which ones has given their workers shock in the company, not as part of the 401k plan. They even advertisized this fact in the past that their workers own the company.Originally posted by Fez
Correct me if this is wrong, but doesn't that have something to do with those 401k plans? I am not sure what those are but I been hearing about them.
Albeit very little. In fact I wouldn't call it communism, but a mixed form of moderate socialism. Even socialism is too strong of a word....Comment
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Communism is all having the same, contrary to what local communist wannabes think.
The real question, boxers, or briefs?Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ BraindeadComment
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Well even so.. that isn't communism. And not even close to it. If the workers are given stock in the company, that is in fact capitalism, where everybody makes a bit of money added to their pay checks.Originally posted by Jack_www
It is not 401k plans. I know some airlines, i forgot which ones has given their workers shock in the company, not as part of the 401k plan. They even advertisized this fact in the past that their workers own the company.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Marx, Engels, Mill. Read "Kapital", "On Liberty", and Poppers "Open Society".Communism can allow free enterprise.. since when?
Communism is no antithesis to capitalism.
Au contrare, it is elements of communism in capitalism. To have a purely capitalist society, one would have every human in competition with each other, at least, according to your logic about communism.that isn't communism. And not even close to it. If the workers are given stock in the company, that is in fact capitalism
Even in todays society, the two philosophies merge and produce something viable. In essense, todays Western societies are [s]poor[/s] interpretations of communism. Put less simplistically, any working society has to have elements of communism in it, and as such, communism in a society, like all things, is a sliding scale. One cannot simply discretely say "this is communism, whereas this is not".
But one thing that one must get ones head round, is that communism can allow capitalism, and in the libertarian interpretations of communism (not authoritarian stalinism), capitalism can indeed be more efficient than today in Western societies, as competition create unnecessary impedence to innovation, progressive attitutes thus progress, and thus market opportunities.
Large companies instead are allowed to become megacorps, which hurt people via political corruption and the infamous human rights abuses of globalisation, and hurt the market by impeding smaller companies, which tend to be more efficient at producing a product, more innovative, whilst equally profitable per head of employee and shareholder.
That is why I propose a completely free market, the government having nothing to do with capitalism, until these corps become so large that they breach the Mill Limit, in which case, they shuold be dealt with. That would keep economies at peak efficiency and productivity in any case.
All things have their limits, all things are a sliding scale. Lets not view the world in a simplistic discrete way."I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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Well I am not that extreme when it comes to capitalism. Certainly small and medium sized businesses have to prosper aswell. My beliefs are not all about megacorporations.
I think the right word you are looking for is socialism, not communism. Communism is far too harsh of a word to use.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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In general, I find socialism to be a more authoritarian flavour of communism, as such, I prefer communism. In socialism, or at least all the flavours of socialism I am familiar with, capitalism is not generally permitted to the extent it is with the libertarian forms of communism with which I subscribe.
See why many modern communists get so irritated when they are tarred with the same brush as Stalinism?"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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Libertarian communism? Man what the hell are you ranting about? There is no such thing. That is a blatant contradiction.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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