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  • #271
    Originally posted by Fez


    You are so full of ****. Forced me into a corner? How the **** can a communist do that? You people never have a clue.. You spew out so much nonsense you can't even understand what transparency means. Get to the economics textbooks before you say stupid things.
    I've READ an Econ texbookd, that is why I decided command economies don't work. I saw nothing in the book that says Co-ops have tranparancy problems

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    • #272
      Odin, lets agree to disagree. We been over these issues of economics many times already. I have taken what.. two years of college level economic courses? I am not a idiot.. I can come up with my own opinions on this and don't need you shoving this co-op crap down my throat.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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      • #273
        Originally posted by Fez
        Odin, lets agree to disagree. We been over these issues of economics many times already. I have taken what.. two years of college level economic courses? I am not a idiot.. I can come up with my own opinions on this and don't need you shoving this co-op crap down my throat.
        Truce, for now.

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        • #274
          20 million died under Stalin from his great purges... don't tell me if it was less repressive, because it isn't. And from what it sounds when I was reading the book it most certainly was not.
          I'm analysing literatre, not historic events. And Solzhenytsin was definetly a historian of Russian history. In his book, hukov was never critical or condemning of the system, it was something he accepted and lived with, even when being sent to a gulag. Jesus, Fez, did you even read the book?

          Actually you are wrong. What Argentina is experiencing is strictly superficial growth. Completely inadequate to provide any bounceback.
          I never said it was the growth to restore all growths. But if the workers hadn't maintained the factories open out of their own pockets through the Menem era, Argentina would be totally decapitalised and exponentially worse off than she is in reality.

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          • #275
            Originally posted by Odin


            Truce, for now.
            I also want to apologize for my last offensive post with all those bad words in it.. that was poor on my part.

            I might not be here for another month anyways... so might aswell do right with what time I got left.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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            • #276
              Originally posted by El Awrence


              I'm analysing literatre, not historic events. And Solzhenytsin was definetly a historian of Russian history. In his book, hukov was never critical or condemning of the system, it was something he accepted and lived with, even when being sent to a gulag. Jesus, Fez, did you even read the book?
              Shukov. I read the book too long ago..

              I never said it was the growth to restore all growths. But if the workers hadn't maintained the factories open out of their own pockets through the Menem era, Argentina would be totally decapitalised and exponentially worse off than she is in reality.
              I hate Menem. I used to say "well he is alright"... but I did more reading.. and forget it. He was no capitalist. He was like Boris Yeltsin.

              As I am leaving your country in a week (yeah go ahead and open a bottle of wine)... I hope everything gets better for you and your people. And I mean it.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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              • #277
                Menem was actually the uber capitalist. Greedy, corrupt, self serving. Menem is the epitomy of capitalism, what with his neo liberal economic policies and his 'carnal relations' program with the United States.

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                • #278
                  Originally posted by Jack_www
                  IN a capital system you would never have such shortages and productivety is much higher, because workers are rewarded with pay for their work.
                  You just pulled this out of your hat. Capitalist countries have all kinds of trouble. And another thing. Most workers in the US are paid by the hour, not for how much work they do.
                  Originally posted by Jack_www
                  Also the Soviet Union was way behind in technology when compared to the US and had to steal much of it just to stay close to the US.
                  The USSR made huge strides in technology while it was communist. The US was ahead in technology because it started out ahead.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                  • #279
                    Originally posted by El Awrence
                    Menem was actually the uber capitalist. Greedy, corrupt, self serving. Menem is the epitomy of capitalism, what with his neo liberal economic policies and his 'carnal relations' program with the United States.
                    Well Argentina is Argentina. It was never true capitalism.

                    I usually talk about Chile nowadays. That was true capitalism.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                    Comment

                    • #280
                      Well Argentina is Argentina. It was never true capitalism.

                      I usually talk about Chile nowadays. That was true capitalism.
                      True capitalism is what gave Argentina its current economic situation, what with the IMF neoliberal 'get well' recipes and US pats on the back to continue neo liberal policies.

                      Chile isn't true capitalism, Chile is a lot welfare state, more like Scandinavia than even the United States.

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                      • #281
                        Originally posted by El Awrence


                        True capitalism is what gave Argentina its current economic situation, what with the IMF neoliberal 'get well' recipes and US pats on the back to continue neo liberal policies.
                        No.. It isn't true capitalism. Man you are just typical full of crap.

                        Chile isn't true capitalism, Chile is a lot welfare state, more like Scandinavia than even the United States.
                        No... (Much of the welfare state Chile was in the early 1970s, was cut back by the Pinochet dictatorship and never restored)
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                        Comment

                        • #282
                          Originally posted by Kidicious

                          The USSR made huge strides in technology while it was communist. The US was ahead in technology because it started out ahead.
                          This is precisely the sort of thing that kills me when captitalists tout their system. Whatever else you say about the Soviet Union, it did manage to accelerate Russia and Co. right out of the middle ages and into leaders of the age - the leader in fact, in terms of space and missile technology for awhile. It was only GOVERNMENT programs like the Air Force and NASA that brought parity between the US and USSR technologically.

                          So much for free enterprise and advancement!
                          - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
                          - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
                          - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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                          • #283
                            Okay I had enough of this nonsense.. good night people.. I must be going to bed...
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                            Comment

                            • #284
                              Originally posted by GePap
                              I have to disagree with Che. I think the great misinterpretation of "dictatorship of the proleteriat" was at the root of so much of the failure of "communism" as it came about. Why should all politics be controlled by a single party? and if a single party, why not allow for more diversity in that party? And make everyone a member period, unless they choose actively not to be in it?
                              Since everybody is a worker in a communist country, as the state owns the means of production, "dictatorship of the proleteriat" means that the country is run all the citizens.

                              Originally posted by GePap
                              Also, I do think that Marx's economic interpretations were wrong. While I tyhink he was right to say that only at a certain point of production can communism come to the fore (points that none of the countries in which communism came to the fore had actually reached), he did not grasp the development of the middle class, he failed to see how its class identity would be as strong as that of the workers, and how with time and the development of capitalism it would eb the middle class that would come to the fore as those industries that are chiefly about the means of production would become secondary to those in which services would come to the fore (lowering the distance between the worker and the output since in the service sector there is really nothing doividing the worker from his output).
                              I am assuming you use "middle class" here to refer to upper echelons of white collars and professionals (lawyers, doctors, architects, etc.) instead of the historical meaning. That is, those who were between landowners and workers - in other words, capitalists.

                              I don't see Marx is wrong per se since the so called middle class is just another group of workers. Some of them may own certain means of production (e.g. doctors running their own clinics), and might be more properly placed in the "small capitalists" group, but the basic classification is still intact.
                              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                              • #285
                                Just great. Now we have a bunch of Sindicatists around.
                                urgh.NSFW

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