Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[darrelljs]

I thought the message was perfect...I don't have any changes to suggest.

Darrell

[sooooo]

My vote is still to not send an email until engineering is nearly in.

[darrelljs]

My vote is still to not send an email until engineering is nearly in.

I saw that in the other thread but I confess I did not understand the advantage...can you elaborate?

Darrell

[Swiss Pauli]

I didn't understand sooooo's point either: in order to convince PAL of our scheme we have to not only show them the benefits of working together, but also to sow doubts in their minds as to whether they can win the race.

[sooooo]

Yeah ... I understand that point. My argument was that PAL, at the moment, won't trade us philosophy because they are slightly worried about our new tech rate. In 9 turns time they will be researching education, be up 2 techs on us and feel fairly safe so will be more likely to give us philosophy, letting us start on nationalism.

I do understand the benefits of trying to convince PAL that we are a threat to their liberalism ideas, but I don't think they will cut a deal with us because they won't believe our threats. Let's face it, we aren't really a threat because we want engineering first and we have told them that we want engineering first. Sending an email now is bluffing. I think they will just call our bluff. But if the consensus wants to run the bluff then that's fine by me.

[darrelljs]

Well, it does have some elements of a bluff, like any negotiation. I mean, we want to get the best out of the exchange we can. I've been convinced they are extremely unlikely to take the offer as is, but I still think we might work something out that is mutually beneficial.

I think you are taking the position that this offer is D.O.A., it won't lead to any kind of useful negotiation, and we need to figure out our own path to Nationalism. Philosophy is on that path so we need to find the optimal way to wheedle Philosophy from them, and that's trading Engineering when they feel Liberalism is safe. So, here's a compromise suggestion. Let's say the negotiations go poorly/never start. We can say, "Gee you've convniced us but let's at least do the Engineering/Philosophy trade. You have our word we won't compete in the Liberalism race."

Darrell

[ruff_hi]

We can say, "Gee you've convniced us but let's at least do the Engineering/Philosophy trade. You have our word we won't compete in the Nationalism race."

I think you mis-typed ... You have our word we won't compete in the liberalism race."?

[darrelljs]

I think you mis-typed ... You have our word we won't compete in the liberalism race."?

Yup, that's what I meant! Corrected.

Thanks,
Darrell

[Dreylin]

Or we offer something like: "Trade Phil for Engineering now, then we'll research Nationalism and trade it for Education"

Edit: but I think we should at least try the cooperation e-mail, there's nothing to lose by it!

[Swiss Pauli]

Well we have 4 in favour (me, darrell, dreylin & rego), one tentatively in favour (sunrise in the tech discussion thread), and two against (sooooo & mh). Given the senstive nature of the discussion, I don't consider there to be enough votes in favour to send the email. Would be good here the voices of the silent or undecided though...

[Kodii]

If we are able to negotiate the deal, and PAL fails to give us the free tech, then that puts them one tech ahead (say... Nationalism).

If we negotiate to get Philosophy for Engineering, and then Nationalism for Education, that puts them two techs ahead (Liberalism + Free Tech).

I say, why not give the cooperation a shot. The worst that can happen is that it completely flops and we get no deal, but that's exactly what we're going to get if we don't send the e-mail, right? I feel the most likely situation is that we make a compromise (eg Engineering for Philosophy) and sending this message is unlikely to hinder that.

[ruff_hi]

I am in favour of talking. However, I would slightly modify the latest draft I can see as follows ...

Hi Cres

Team RB is thinking of racing PAL to Liberalism, but we have a proposal that may be more interesting for both our teams, namely that we combine our research power to jointly learn Liberalism (and more besides). It would work like this:

In beaker terms, Engineering + Education = Paper + Philo + Liberalism.

Team RB would provide Engineering and Education, and PAL the other three techs. PAL would then 'gift' Team RB the free tech from Liberalism. In this way each team reaps the benefits of Liberalism without having to invest all the beakers itself.

It's an unusual plan, but one we hope you'll be interested in.

We look forward to your feedback.

Hi Cres

It seems that a race to Liberalism is developing amongst the teams. Team RB would like to propose joining forces with PAL to win this race. It would work like this:

etc

[Zeviz]

I like Ruff's suggested message and think we should send it ASAP.

We lose nothing by trying and could gain a lot.

[Swiss Pauli]

Yes, let's send the message today.

[sunrise089]

I support the message, as well as Swiss's recommendations for further dialogue.