Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[Swiss Pauli]

Had a quick check and Engineering itself will take 11 turns at 70% (-5gpt). I'll drop an email to PAL tomorrow about trade possibilities.

[Swiss Pauli]

email sent:

Hi Cres,

We're almost done with our 'backfill' techs, and then we plan to research Engineering. What would you be interested in trading us for this tech?

Cheers,

Swiss

[Swiss Pauli]

We should whether we want to propose something like this fairly soon:

Hi Cres,

In response to Imperio's Bad Craziness, we'd like to propose mutual support pact in case of an Imperio DoW on either of us in the next 10-15 turns. We would include things like shipping techs on agreed deals up front, resource supply, short term cash loans from the team at peace to the team at war, etc.

We'd also be willing to consider active military support if you'd be prepared to do the same for us.

Let us know your thoughts.

[regoarrarr]

Did they respond to our email about Engineering?

We now know they're going for Paper (and assumedly Liberalism) but maybe they don't want to tell us that?

[Swiss Pauli]

No, no response to the tech trade email, and I wouldn't expect an offer of Philo, given it's a racing certainty they're going for Liberalism.

[Swiss Pauli]

Hey Swiss,

Just to stay in touch and let you know: there aren't any ideas floating in our forums on what to trade for engineering.

-cres.

Not an entirely surprising reply.

As I see it, we have three options:

1. Try to get them to accept a shared Liberalism grab,

2. Assure them we won't go for Lib if they trade us Philo for Eng then go directly to Nat.

3. Race 'em to Lib.

I'll copy this into the tech discussion thread, so we can discuss the options.

[Swiss Pauli]

Hi Cres

Team RB is thinking of racing PAL to Liberalism, but we have a proposal that may be more interesting for both our teams, namely that we combine our research power to jointly learn Liberalism (and more besides). It would work like this:

In beaker terms, Engineering + Education = Paper + Philo + Liberalism.

Team RB would provide Engineering and Education, and PAL the other three techs. PAL would then 'gift' Team RB the free tech from Liberalism. In this way each team reaps the benefits of Liberalism without having to invest all the beakers itself.

It's an unusual plan, but one we hope you'll be interested in.

We look forward to your feedback.

I assume PAL will come back saying that they're confident they'll win any race. If so, we have to tell them we'll bulb 1500 beakers of Education to overturn their lead. If they come back to this saying they will also part-bulb Edu, then we say 'why not do something else with that GS?'. If they're still not keen then that's that.

If PAL does accept then the biggest danger we face is them not handing over the Liberalism tech because they feel they can get away with it (Imperio and Templars hating us/their inevitable war with Banana).

[regoarrarr]

I say we threaten to use 2 scientists to bulb Edu (or Paper / half of Edu). I think that's plausible enough that they can't ignore it

I'd also point out initially the advantages that they get by having "researched" the techs and thus being able to broker them.

[Dreylin]

If Pal doesn't accept, we can always try making the same offer to Banana while pointing out that they'll be dead if Pal succeed!

[T-hawk]

Are we going to get 2 scientists in that time frame? If Airstrip One runs two scientists in addition to the GL, that's still 300 / 14 = 22 turns between scientists #2 and #3.

[regoarrarr]

I didn't say that we COULD do that. Just that I thought it was plausible that PAL could believe we could.

Say we got our first GS out of the capital, and have been running 2 Sci's out of China Beach in the meantime (essentially the opposite of what we actually DID do)

So (we tell PAL if we need to) we got our first scientist from the GL. This was a few turns ago let's say T115. At that time China Beach was at 99/100, and needs just 16 turns (T131) to hit 200 GPP and pop Scientist #2. By running 2 scientists in addition to the 2 free ones and the GL GPP, A1 is pulling 14 GPP / turn and is at 199/200 at T131 and only takes 8 more turns to get to 33 (T139).

This is all not even considering the National Epic, which we very well could have built already (and actually will be building soon)

So if I'm PAL, I think I definitely have to be believing 2 GSs out of us is a possibility.

[Swiss Pauli]

I assume the 2 GSs is a bluff based on the fact that we can claim to be holding back the one born a few turns ago. It might work.

EDIT: crosspost with rego: but PAL does know we have a GS, but I'm not sure if NE shows up on the Wonder list

[mostly-harmless]

It does not show up on a wonder list, being a national wonder. However, it will be visible in the Top 5 City list, IF PAL had a line of sight into it, which they don't. Also it will be awarded with 16 ingame points. So it comes down on how good their C&D is.

That said, I am with sooooooo (I think), in not wanting to commit too much. Especially not what we are going to do with our next great persons.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Did a quick double check, and National Wonders are only displayed for the player's civ.

I don't think we're committing to anything at this stage (except talk). As stated elsewhere, my personal preference is for skipping Liberalism altogether, but there's quite a lot of people in favour of broaching the joint-Liberalism plan with PAL.

[Swiss Pauli]

This seems to have fizzled out a bit. If we want to keep this path open then we need to get the discussion started soon as it will take a bit of back and forth with PAL to decide whether it's a go, or a no-go.