NFL 2013 Season Thread

[-Jrabbit]

After commercials, the radio dude wrapping up said, "I've watched the tape several times and basically, Kuechly tackled Gronkowski in the end zone before the ball got there. That's a flag at any other time in the game. Then they pick it up with no explanation."

He clearly thought NE got screwed, but then said the real difference in the game was Ridley fumbling in the red zone.

[SlowwHand]

He had to say something. The defender got away with a mugging. I don't cheer for NE but still and all, that was a botch.

[-Jrabbit]

Just saw the replay. Not as bad as the announcer made it sound, but still clearly a homer non-call for Carolina.

[Ming]

I also listened to the end of the game on the radio, and I know what you mean. I heard the radio replay yet again this morning, and it even sounded worse than when I heard it the first time

But I just finished watching it... and yeah, it could have been called, and would have been at any other point in the game, but it certainly wasn't as bad as they made it sound on the radio. Refs will rarely make a call on a final pass play like that one... especially against the home team

[MRT144]

A ball intercepted so hilariously and would necessitate an OPI to prevent certainly seems uncatchable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Perhaps this is irrational (in fact I know it is), but I always find it amusing when the Pats complain about calls .

Anyway, the ball was clearly underthrown - at worst that's defensive holding, not PI due to it being uncatchable. I guess that would make it one untimed down at the 13 yard line. However, Ming is right - refs usually don't like throwing flags on the last play.

[Ben Kenobi]

This is the Patriots. My heart bleeds for them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Interesting - on another board where I post, one of the posters is an NCAA ref and this is what he said:

I am not certain in the NFL Rule book but in the NCAA CFO test there was this exact play. (Pass inteference downfield a few yards from where the ball was intercepted). And in that play there is no pass inteference by rule. I would bet that there is a similar play in the NFL book because this one just came into the NCAA book this year and it's normally a trickle down effect.

Defensive holding is always prior to the pass...so if he deemed all actions prior to the ball being in the air legal (and he did cause he called DPI which is while the ball is in the air), then he can't change that DPI into a DH.

(here is the link to the thread: http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...t=87789&page=5)

[ColdWizard]

NFL Rulebook.

Article 3 Permissible Acts by both teams while the ball is in the air.
Acts that are permissible by a player include, but are not limited to:
(c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved
players, except as specified in 8-3-2 and 8-5-4 pertaining to blocking downfield by the offense.

Article 6 Defensive Holding. It is defensive holding if a player grasps an eligible offensive player (or his jersey) with his
hands, or extends an arm or arms to cut off or encircle him. See 12-1-6.

Article 6: Defensive Holding.
It is a foul for defensive holding if:
(a) a defensive player tackles or holds any opponent other than a runner, except as permitted in Article 5;

Article 5:
Legal Use of Hands or Arms by Defense.
A defensive player may use his hands, arms, or body to push, pull, or ward off offensive players:
(a) when he is defending himself against an obstructing opponent while attempting to reach the runner; or
(b) when an opponent is obviously attempting to block him; or
(c) in a personal attempt to reach a loose ball that has touched the ground during a backward pass, fumble, or kick; or
(d) during a forward pass that has crossed the neutral zone and has been touched by any player.
Exception 1: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent only to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball (including handing off the ball, pitching the ball, or moving out of the pocket). See Rule 8, Section 4, Articles 1–4 for rules applicable to Illegal Contact with an eligible receiver.

In the NFL, illegal contact is prior to the pass.

Article 3 Illegal Contact Beyond Five-Yard Zone.
Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. If the receiver attempts to evade the defender, the defender cannot initiate contact that redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Perhaps this is irrational (in fact I know it is), but I always find it amusing when the Pats complain about calls .

Funny how that's the typical response to a situation that comes up often enough for there to be a typical response.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

NFL Rulebook.

So how is it not holding under that definition?

[ColdWizard]

Clearly it is. However, I also think that going to ground ends prior to/concurrently with one attempting to get up. So that which is clear to me may or may not be correct.


(Yes, I am still upset about that Calvin Johnson catch from however many years ago; no, I'm not going to let it go.)

[Donegeal]

You mean the Calvin Johnson drop.

[SlowwHand]

Doesn't the defender have to still be looking back for the ball? I know that you used to watch the receiver's eyes and when they go big, the ball was almost there, so you turned around to avoid a face guarding penalty.

[-Jrabbit]

Kuechly had his arms around Gronk. Doesn't matter where your eyes are, you can't do that more than 5 yds downfield with the ball in the air.

Don't get me wrong; I loved the outcome. But it sure looks like a penalty to me.