NFL - Are you Ready For Some Football?! - Wild Card Round!

[Ming]

The Bet with Ben Kenobi
Opening day spread by Danny Sheridan:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gaming/sheridan.htm

NFL Playoffs
Saturday, Jan. 3
Atlanta Falcons 2 ARIZONA CARDINALS 51
Indianapolis Colts 1 SAN DIEGO CHARGERS 51

Sunday, Jan. 4
Baltimore Ravens 3 MIAMI DOLPHINS 37
Philadelphia Eagles 3 MINNESOTA VIKINGS 42

Every home team is a dog for the opening week.
It was close, but the Colts are the favorites

While our bet was "opening day odds" I checked DS today the line has moved. The current line is Chargers favored by one. While technically, I won the bet... I don't feel right collecting on it, since the line has shifted.
I really never thought the Chargers would be favored.

So I waive collecting on the bet. Happy New Year.

[Ben Kenobi]

So I was right in the end.

And here I thought I was gonna get blown away.

[Ming]

Actually... I thought you were going to be blown away as well, and was surprised to see the opening line so close... And obviously the bettors agree with you, since the line has now moved to favor SD based on DS. So again, I don't see a need to collect on this one.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, do you not even pay attention to what other people are saying? Or do we need to call the Pope in here to tell you what you're utterly ignoring? He left the NFL for the CFL because he was a scab, for one, and secondly because he failed to throw more TDs than INTs in three seasons with the Patriots. Why should they have started him??

Playing him only an average of 6 games a season? How do you expect to develop anybody? The Pats should have let him start a full 16, and then assess him, rather then pitching him out as the backup.

Call him what he was: one of the greatest CFL players of all time. That's accurate, and nothing anyone would disagree with. It's utterly illogical to claim that he would have been a HOFer in the NFL if only they'd let him play.

Having watched him in the CFL, and having watched NFL and CFL football, and seeing I'm not the only one who has said that, I feel it is a reasonable statement to make that had he been given the opportunity to start he would have done well.

His first season in the CFL with the lions was not that stellar, but they gave him a full season starting, something he never got in the NFL. I don't think it's right to assess a QB based on only a few games spread out, you really need a whole season starting before they can get seasoned.

There's nearly always someone willing to take a chance on talent; if he'd had the talent to play QB as a starter in 1990 in the NFL, he'd have stayed in the NFL.

Mostly because of prejudice is why he was excluded, he was considered to be too small to be a QB.

Instead, he followed the money, and the starts, to Canada, where he could be a big fish in a smaller pond, and he excelled.

He would have made more money as a backup in the NFL then he ever made in the CFL. It wasn't for the money he went north, but for the playing time. If folks in the NFL always consider you a glorified backup, then how can you fault him for bolting at the chance to play?

There wasn't a Flutie-Hating Association in the NFL (other than those players who disliked him because he was a scab - but that's certainly his OWN choice, and those players weren't GMs or owners deciding who starts); he preferred to star in the CFL, and did so.

We always felt happy to have him but it's like having a talented employee, you know he deserves better then his current job where he is way too good for the league. No one was happier when he finally got a NFL contract, because he had done everything he could. He won 3 greycups with 3 different teams, it really didn't matter who he played with, he could win all on his own.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually... I thought you were going to be blown away as well, and was surprised to see the opening line so close... And obviously the bettors agree with you, since the line has now moved to favor SD based on DS. So again, I don't see a need to collect on this one.

I was hoping that when his opening line would come out as I was seeing lines like PK em since it came down from -3 at the Vegas lines, that it would shift enough for me to win.

Thanks for the honourable bet though Ming. Was a pleasure playing with you and it looks like I'm gonna miss the game tomorrow as I have to work.

[Tuberski]

BK loses the bet, the line always moves, I took the bet ot mean the opening line, not the final spread.

Like in Lombardi Handicapping, the line changes, but it doesn't affect your pick when you make it.

The line moving means people were betting on one team more than the other.

ACK!

[Ben Kenobi]

Then perhaps we should make a bet next time Tuber

[Imran Siddiqui]

Mostly because of prejudice is why he was excluded, he was considered to be too small to be a QB.

So was Drew Brees (who is listed at 6' even), but guess what, he won the job in practice and training camp, as Flutie could have.

[Ben Kenobi]

Since when is 6'0'' too small?

5'9'' is way smaller then 6'0''.

[Imran Siddiqui]

6' has ALWAYS been too small, Ben. Pay attention . Every QB that comes out that is 6' has been called too small. It's because the offensive and defensive linemen are 6'2'' to 6'5''.

[-Jrabbit]

If the QB can't see over, and throw over, the onrushing linemen, his effectiveness is severely compromised. That's why we all hated the Grossman pick in Chicago. (Plus, he has tiny hands and can't run.) We could have had Culpepper, about 6'5".

At QB, 6' tall is marginal at best. 5'9" is problematic. Most defensive linemen are 5-9 inches taller than that -- a lot to overcome. another huge problem for Flutie was that he weighed only 180 pounds. That's pretty light and very likely to be injured.


That's not prejudice; it's physics.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's because the offensive and defensive linemen are 6'2'' to 6'5''.

So you have to see OVER the linemen to be effective?

That's a laugh.

How many linemen actually stand up to their full height?

[Ben Kenobi]

another huge problem for Flutie was that he weighed only 180 pounds. That's pretty light and very likely to be injured.

Which is why he had to learn to avoid sacks.

Rob Johnson was a sack machine and was always injured. Behind the line Flutie was able to avoid most of the pass rush that came his way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you have to see OVER the linemen to be effective?

That's a laugh.

How many linemen actually stand up to their full height?

For the most part, yes. Otherwise, the offensive gameplan has to have a blocking scheme far more dedicated to creating lanes to throw rather than a normal pass blocking scheme (one for the QB to see properly and the other because to prevent defensive linemen from knocking down passes more easily).

And if you've ever watched an NFL game, you can easily see that offensive linemen do stand up to almost full height and defensive linemen try to attempt to swat the ball away.

Seriously Ben, do you even watch football?!

[Ben Kenobi]

For the most part, yes.

I don't see the O-Line ever stand up to it's full height in protecting the quarterback.

Otherwise, the offensive gameplan has to have a blocking scheme far more dedicated to creating lanes to throw rather than a normal pass blocking scheme (one for the QB to see properly and the other because to prevent defensive linemen from knocking down passes more easily).

Good point. You didn't bring this one up, but as you may know Flutie was good at preventing his passes from being picked off by not trying to thow on those down routes, everything he put was up high. He had very few blocked passes.

And if you've ever watched an NFL game, you can easily see that offensive linemen do stand up to almost full height and defensive linemen try to attempt to swat the ball away.

Yep, which is one of the reasons Flutie put the balls up high. Passes blocked is more a function of poor technique then it is one of height.

As for your argument about Grossman, Grossman sucked because of his brain not his height. Poor QB decisions have nothing to do with one's height.