NFL - Are you Ready For Some Football?! - Wild Card Round!

[Imran Siddiqui]

He may have had few blocked passes, but that doesn't change the reason why short QBs aren't necessarily favored. They have to see over the line. It isn't prejudice, it's the fact.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, a LOT of fun stuff coming from New York, where Jets players (one anonymous and Thomas Jones) are calling Brett Favre out. I don't think he'll want to come back there and they don't want him back (it seems). The players appear to be mad that Mangini got the **** for it, when he didn't even want to trade for Favre to begin with.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm not arguing they should be favoured, all I'm saying is that height is irrelevant.

1. Offensive Linemen cannot stay at their full height. It's too easy to push them over if they do so. It's simple physics with leverage.

2. Pass rushing linemen rush on the outside or they try to open up holes in the line coverage, allowing them to run through. These lines provide that gap anyways that lets the QB see down the field.

3. Pass blocking is primarily done by the coverage Linebackers and aren't a factor in seeing over the line as they are usually behind the line.

4. You have wide receivers. If the throws are to the sidelines, you can seen them open irrespective of the line play, especially from the shotgun formation.

5. You shouldn't really need to see the recievers in order to throw to them. It's all based on timing nowadays. 3 step drop, and throw to wherever the play is designed. The QB should be able to see in his head where the receiver is going to be and where he needs to throw to have him catch.

6. If the receivers are taller then the linemen, then the QB doesn't need to be taller then the linemen in order to see his receiver. A receiver with his arms up has quite an advantage over linemen who are crouched.

I really don't understand the emphasis on the need for 'height'. If you are relying on unobstructed vision, then that doesn't make you as strong a QB as say Peyton Manning.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I didn't say full height, I said almost full height. Someone like Walter Jones is not going to lose more than 5'' when he goes to pass block. Also lines created because a defensive player has made them isn't going to help the QB any . And I don't know about your eyes work, but unless you are doing screens, you kind of have to see over your line to see the sideline.

Most pass blocking that I'm talking about is done at the line, by the defensive linemen or blitzing LBs, so yeah... like right in front.

The seeing in his head thing is nice, but there are also things like open receivers and covered receivers and defensive players. That is also why seeing arms doesn't work well.

Height is obviously an important consideration. I think the people that scout and coach football know more about it than you, so I'll just listen to them.

[Ben Kenobi]

I didn't say full height, I said almost full height. Someone like Walter Jones is not going to lose more than 5'' when he goes to pass block. Also lines created because a defensive player has made them isn't going to help the QB any.

Oh sure, but he can throw beofre he gets hit.

And I don't know about your eyes work, but unless you are doing screens, you kind of have to see over your line to see the sideline.

From a shotgun formation? No, not really.

The seeing in his head thing is nice, but there are also things like open receivers and covered receivers and defensive players. That is also why seeing arms doesn't work well.

So the QB is supposed to look down his receiver?

Why do you think Manning gesticulates so much at the LOS?

Height is obviously an important consideration. I think the people that scout and coach football know more about it than you, so I'll just listen to them.

Height is more important for receivers. Height is actually pretty irrelevant for all except maybe receivers and the defensive backs.

Perhaps this explains why the Bears have had such a hard time picking QBs.

The only solid reason I've seen for wanting taller folks is the durability issue, in that if you are heavier you are supposed to be tougher.

[Imran Siddiqui]

From a shotgun formation? No, not really.

And if you watched football, you'd realize that a vast majority of the time, NFL teams do not play in a shotgun. That's why college QBs like Vince Young who have played most of their games in a shotgun have such a hard time adapting to the NFL pro-style offense.

So the QB is supposed to look down his receiver?

He's supposed to be able to see a WR that is covered, or do you think that QBs just throw it regardless... in which case... wow.

Btw, speaking of Manning... Peyton is 6'5''.

Height is actually pretty irrelevant for all except maybe receivers and the defensive backs.

Bull. Height makes it far easier on a QB.

[Ben Kenobi]

And if you watched football, you'd realize that a vast majority of the time, NFL teams do not play in a shotgun.

The Patriots had no trouble running shotgun all the time. The only reason for not using shotgun is that you want to disguise plays. Doesn't mean you can't run quick outs and screens like Peyton does, throwing out the sides, or dumping it off to the TE.

That's why college QBs like Vince Young who have played most of their games in a shotgun have such a hard time adapting to the NFL pro-style offense.

Vince Young has a brain problem. Look at the Titans when they finally got a real QB. I was hoping the Titans would stick with Young, because we beat them twice last year because of him.

He's supposed to be able to see a WR that is covered, or do you think that QBs just throw it regardless... in which case... wow.

Oh yeah, they do it all the time. It's all about the timing. Put it up there, and the receiver is there.

Btw, speaking of Manning... Peyton is 6'5''.

The reasons why Manning is so exceptional have nothing to do with his height and everything to do with his control, his ability to read plays, his knowledge of the receiver.

I would bet that Manning could do a timing route while blindfolded. Why do you have to be tall to do that?

Bull. Height makes it far easier on a QB.

Only if they have the field awareness. Otherwise they are sacrificing mobility.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ok, let's not use Vince Young, what about Jason White for another? It is well known that QBs that use primarily shotgun offenses in college have to go through an extensive relearning process due to the NFL's reliance on pro-style offenses and very rare shotgun formations.

It's all about the timing. Put it up there, and the receiver is there.

They look over and make sure the receiver is moving properly to get to where he's supposed to be... or to make sure a defender isn't there and many times if a defender is there, they'll look away and make a quick glance to see if the defender bit.

Seriously, do you ever watch football?!

The reasons why Manning is so exceptional have nothing to do with his height and everything to do with his control, his ability to read plays, his knowledge of the receiver.

The question is then, why are the vast majority of QBs over 6' tall and a good few inches over at that? Cause it kinda helps everything else if you are tall enough to see over the line at the coverages.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben, if timing routes were done blindfolded, don't you think defenders would see that on tape?

Receivers get jammed at the line, throwing lines open and close, routes change based on defensive alignments -- and the QB must be able to see, read, determine what adjustment both the WR and he must make. THEN he throws. The number of pure timing routes thrown in the NFL is vanishingly small -- mostly just end zone fades.

Comparing two QBs of otherwise equal physical and mental skills, the taller one has a huge advantage.

[-Jrabbit]

This is a bit of a surprise.

Blackout? Fans still not sold on Vikings playoffs

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. (AP) — Plenty of good seats are still available for Minnesota's playoff game against Philadelphia.

The Vikings reported 8,000 tickets remaining at noon New Year's Day for Sunday's game against the Eagles. The NFL has granted an extension until 3:30 p.m. local time Friday to reach a virtual sellout, but the possibility of a local TV blackout looms.

The blackout would not only encompass the Twin Cities, but secondary markets in the region as well. It includes satellite, cable and over-the-air systems, so nobody in the area could watch the game unless they're in attendance at the Metrodome.

Vice president of sales and marketing Steve LaCroix said the team has hired extra holiday help to solicit potential buyers. The Vikings haven't had a game blacked out since 1997.

The Associated Press

[Tuberski]

Not really, I saw it earlier...............

ACK!

[Ben Kenobi]

The question is then, why are the vast majority of QBs over 6' tall and a good few inches over at that? Cause it kinda helps everything else if you are tall enough to see over the line at the coverages.

Seems to be a durability issue.

Why are most QB's who excel about 6-2 and not taller if height is the most important thing? Height is useful, but there are drawbacks with mobility.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, if timing routes were done blindfolded, don't you think defenders would see that on tape?

Hence why disruption is so effective. Manning runs one of the rare offenses that rely on a timing offense, that is really rather simple. Everything is timed. Receiver is supposed to be in a certain place at a certain time and the play is assigned before Manning throws. Manning makes the adjustments before the snap, so that he doesn't have to change his mind after the play has started.

Receivers get jammed at the line, throwing lines open and close, routes change based on defensive alignments -- and the QB must be able to see, read, determine what adjustment both the WR and he must make. THEN he throws. The number of pure timing routes thrown in the NFL is vanishingly small -- mostly just end zone fades.

Most QBs don't have the ability to run timing routes on a regular basis. Manning does, Brady does. Most do as you say, with the read and react, including Rivers and Brees.

Comparing two QBs of otherwise equal physical and mental skills, the taller one has a huge advantage.

I'd say there are other more important factors, such as the ability to make decisions quickly and to see the field. I think it's interesting that most of the best quarterbacks are all about 6-2 and no taller. Height isn't the most important thing.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for Flutie, the reason he was successful is because he had great field awareness, mobility and leadership. Sure he was small, but his talent made up for it.

[SlowwHand]

Fran Tarkenton.
Will you please say the man's name?!?!?