Brett Kavanaugh, great justice or greatest justice?

[Aeson]

If the room and the only exit to the room were locked, how could she have 'gotten herself out'? Not only did she say, "I believe he intended to rape me", but also "I believed he could have killed me". Yet, nobody here's suggesting that he should be charged for attempted murder.

It seems to me from her testimony that the only one who believed that these things were happening to her is Christine. Both Mark and Kavanaugh deny that any of these events happened. Also, this account is very specific about different features of the house, and yet she can't remember when this happened or where it occurred? She doesn't remember what happened with her friend, or how she got home that night.

I've actually been in a situation similar to Christine here. A former boyfriend of a former landlord, with his drunk buddy, smashed down my door to my room on the hinges. He rushed me and got inside my guard. He then pinned me and attempted to strangle me. I broke his hold and blocked his strikes. I decided that since nobody knew I was there that it was best to leave. He knocked off my glasses, so I had to run out blind in the street.

Now, what I did is 100 percent different from what Christine did, and here the stories differ. I called the cops after flagging down another car. I had cuts all over my legs from when he smashed a glass bowl on me when attempting to subdue me. The cops came in and took pictures and he fled when he saw the cops coming. I filed a police report and pressed charges. He assumed I had left after I took my stuff out of the home, but I made a plan with the cops to get him arrested. After I worked out a plan with the cops, I came back, grabbed his keys when he was on the patio, locked him and his friend out of the house. He called the cops after I refused him entry, and barricaded the door. They came and picked him and he went to jail.

The next day I spoke with my landlady and found another place to live. The difference between me and Christine is that I immediately reported the assault to police, and filed a report. The who, what, where, when and how are all there in the report including the pictures of the cuts from the glass bowl.

So why didn't Christine do the same? If she felt that her life was at risk and that he was attempting to rape her?

Doors lock from the inside. She was inside. This isn’t complicated. If you’re locked in your bathroom and need assistance, blink twice so we can send assistance.

Her account includes far more than groping, I’m glad you’ve implicitly agreed on that point by moving the goal posts. In her acount there was clearly forced sexual contact and an attempt to remove her clothes. The implication if the account is believed would necessarily be an attempted rape.

Your murder question is absurd. There was not even supposition of intent to kill, and no action that would suggest such an intent.

Your experience is not analogous. There are well understood psychological and social implications that lead to non reporting in sexual assault cases that are not present in regular assault. Also I highly doubt at the time you were a teenage girl.

[Berzerker]

This is a scam Berzerker is trying to pull.

No. Not all women who don't come forward right away are lying. It's not that Ford accused Kavanaugh publicly many years after she says that she told other people. She came forward when he was about to became a Supreme Court Justice. She caused him to not be on the Court for important hearings.

And that's not the only problem. There are 3 pages of problems. But Berzerker is going to keep asking stupid questions like, "so you're saying that all women who don't come forward right away are lying?"

scam

Maybe you and Ben can get your arguments in sync, Ben said the fact she didn't press charges immediately shows she's lying. You're disagreeing with his argument, you think she's lying because she waited for his nomination to the SCOTUS. I think she waited because she didn't want to expose herself and her loved ones to the yahoos over Kavanaugh's lesser positions in government. Same deal with Anita Hill... Btw, did you know Clarence Thomas was accused of groping a woman in '99? Thats worse than what he did to Hill.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doors lock from the inside. She was inside

This is actually false. I've locked myself in before. Depends on the door.

Why did she take the time to mention the boys 'locking her in'?

Her account includes far more than groping

I find it curious that people are accusing Kavanaugh of attempted rape, but not attempted murder. Christine made both statements in her testimony, "I think, and I believe". To me that raises the question. How did she know that Kavanaugh attempted to rape her and not, say, wrestle her? Did he take his pants off at any time? She does not say that. She claims that he 'attempted to take off her clothes, but again she doesn't say that he did do so. Only that her perception is that he 'attempted'.

See, the reason for the first part the reason it's there is to establish the rest of the narrative. The problem is that she can't explain how she got out of that situation. It's like a bad writer of a detective mystery writing herself into a corner. Her memory is very precise about some things and very imprecise about others. I can remember exactly where I was when my assault happened. Room, place, apartment, location, everything. She seems to be able to remember all these precise details except some of the most important ones.

The other point is that there was corroborating evidence of a struggle throughout the apartment, stuff smashed, door off it's hinges and the cuts. Where is the physical evidence for any encounter with Kavanaugh? There isn't any. It's all, "attempted". She's claiming intent and not actions.

I’m glad you’ve implicitly agreed on that point by moving the goal posts.

What goal posts have I moved? If she believed that her life was seriously threatened she should have called the cops as soon as she got out. She didn't. That leads me to believe that she never was in any particular danger. So why would she say that this is what she believed if her actions didn't corroborate with her feelings?

In her acount there was clearly forced sexual contact and an attempt to remove her clothes.

How did he 'attempt' to remove her clothes? Did he grope her and she assumed that's what he was after? That's the problem.

The implication if the account is believed would necessarily be an attempted rape.

Only actionable content there is that she claims he groped her. The rest relies on her interpretation of events, which, as she claimed she thought her life was in danger that would seem questionable to me. Elevating to attempted rape serves the purpose, but her testimony doesn't actually support that.

[Kidlicious]

Maybe you and Ben can get your arguments in sync, Ben said the fact she didn't press charges immediately shows she's lying. You're disagreeing with his argument, you think she's lying because she waited for his nomination to the SCOTUS. I think she waited because she didn't want to expose herself and her loved ones to the yahoos over Kavanaugh's lesser positions in government. Same deal with Anita Hill... Btw, did you know Clarence Thomas was accused of groping a woman in '99? Thats worse than what he did to Hill.

I don't care about accusations. Innocent until proven guilty. I respect the accused, according to my religion. Matt 7:2

I also respect an accuser, except in this case. She fake cried for 10 minutes. We know it was a fake cry because of biology. Crying produces mucus. Her story is absolutely horrible. She said she took a polygraph, but never produced it. She said she has therapist notes, but never produced them. Her ex testified under oath that she helped someone pass a polygraph before. She lied about that under oath. Her ally tried to get Keyser to change her story. She doesn't deserve to be believed.

[Ben Kenobi]

She said 'accidental', that would be manslaughter if he did kill her

Wouldn't it be attempted murder if he tried to kill her as she claims? Nobody here's even mentioned that, yet it's right there in her testimony.

As for the incident, the people she's accused all testify that she wasn't even there. This includes her girlfriend whom Christine claimed was there. Casts doubts on the accuracy of her testimony. Let alone her account of what Mark and Kavanaugh did. If she can't even get someone to say, "they were in the same room", then she's got major issues.

She remembered features about the inside of the house because thats where she was attacked, why would she remember the outside of the house? Her friend didn't leave the house, she did. How would she remember what her friend did after she took off?

So she's just going to leave her very best friend in a house where she's been sexually assaulted? Or is she going to try to find her friend and then leave.

Answer the question, Berz. If she sincerely believed that her life was in danger from Kavanaugh, why didn't she call the cops once she got away.

[Kidlicious]

"
Why did she take the time to mention the boys 'locking her in'?"

I think a better question is why didn't her friend hear her scream and all that noise? That's a life long friend. And they never talked about it? In her letter she said there was loud music downstairs, but Mitchell got her to change her story.

[Aeson]

I guess that’s another difference between you and Dr. Ford. She knows how doors work.

You can believe the account or not, but it clearly was not just an account of groping. You moved the goalposts to attempted rape, and still lost.

Murder has a legal definition and requires intent to kill. Dr. Ford was explicit that even during the attack she did not think there was intent to kill, and the actions she claims happened dont imply one either. In the account there was no intent to kill. If in such a case death had been a result, it would be manslaughter.

[Aeson]

I've locked myself in before.

Not surprised.

[Proteus_MST]

"
Why did she take the time to mention the boys 'locking her in'?"

I think a better question is why didn't her friend hear her scream and all that noise? That's a life long friend. And they never talked about it? In her letter she said there was loud music downstairs, but Mitchell got her to change her story.

If I remember correctly Kavanaugh held his hend over her mouth ... also she was in the 1st floor (while the rest of the people seem to have been on the ground floor) ... not to forget that, from my party experiences in the 80s/90s, they most likely had music running (and may already have been in a quite drunken state), so even if she had cried it would be questionable if someone would have heard her

[Kidlicious]

If I remember correctly Kavanaugh held his hend over her mouth ... also she was in the 1st floor (while the rest of the people seem to have been on the ground floor) ...
not to forget that, from my party experiences in the 80s, they most likely had music running (and may already have been in a quite drunken state)

You do not remember correctly, or you did not watch the "hearing." She said she screamed and then he put his hand over her mouth. She said in the letter that there was music playing downstairs. But at the "hearing" she said she didn't know if there was music playing or not. She said she didn't know if people were talking downstairs.

[spambot]

Well, I can't say I've ever encountered a bathroom where the door is locked from the outside and can't be unlocked from the inside.

[Proteus_MST]

Well, I can't say I've ever encountered a bathroom where the door is locked from the outside and can't be unlocked from the inside.

Well, the attempted rape happened in a bedroom ... but of course this doesn't matter ... Judge and Kav, of course, locked the room from the inside and there is no reason not to assume that they left the key in the hole (and actually only locked the bedroom in order to not get caught by someone entering the room)

[Kidlicious]

And she doesn't know where someone tried to rape her. How convenient.

[Aeson]

Wouldn't it be attempted murder if he tried to kill her as she claims?

She doesn't claim he tried to kill her. Her actual words:

This was what terrified me the most, and has had the most lasting impact on my life. It was hard for me to breathe, and I thought that Brett was accidentally going to kill me.

If she thought he was trying to kill her she wouldn't have been worried he would do it accidentally.

[Aeson]

Why did she take the time to mention the boys 'locking her in'?

She didn't say she was locked in.

Brett and Mark came into the bedroom and locked the door behind them.

They locked the door and played loud music precluding any successful attempt to yell for help.
Kavanaugh was on top of me while laughing with REDACTED, who periodically jumped onto Kavanaugh.