Okay, what can we realistically expect from a Trump presidency?

[Aeson]

Not if your parents are diplomats

And no, I don't recall where I picked up this obscure fact

Ok, so a small exception ... one which isn't necessarily observed in practice.

Though it's still not an "illegal birth". Maybe "a-legal birth"?

[Thoth]

It makes sense in regards to America's history. We are a nation of immigrants, and for the first century+ anyone who could make it here was allowed in. Being born on American soil was "making it here".

But now the USA has laws restricting immigration and who can legally enter and live in the country. Those laws are pointless if anyone can cross the border illegally, pop out a kid or two and circumvent those laws.

It also makes sense economically. We need more workforce.

What doesn't make sense (at least morally) are the absurd immigration laws which have not allowed in enough immigrants in legally to fill the jobs we need done, so illegals have had to risk their lives and being deported to fill those jobs.

IIRC America still has a high unemployment rate, so why does it need to expand the workforce? Enlarging the labour pool past the job supply simply devalues labour and helps drive down wages for all workers.

[Thoth]

There is no "born illegally". Being born on American soil means you are legally an American citizen. Full stop.

Yes, breaking up families is worse than just deporting people. It doesn't mean deporting US citizens isn't terrible and wrong. (Not to mention unconstitutional.)

This is why American laws on this subject are silly. If the laws made sense the kids would be illegal (and hence non-citizens) since they should have been born in their parents country of origin if their parents had obeyed American laws and not moved to America.

[Kidlicious]

This is why American laws on this subject are silly. If the laws made sense the kids would be illegal (and hence non-citizens) since they should have been born in their parents country of origin if their parents had obeyed American laws and not moved to America.

You have to realize that every state on the border used to be Mexico. There has always been a large Mexican population in what was once Mexico. People don't want to send Mexican-American children to Mexico where they will live in poverty. But we don't want the bad hombres here.

[Aeson]

IIRC America still has a high unemployment rate, so why does it need to expand the workforce? Enlarging the labour pool past the job supply simply devalues labour and helps drive down wages for all workers.

Unemployment is about 5% and falling, we are nearing full employment. We were at ~full employment before the recession. Illegal immigrants had nothing to do with unemployment of the last 8 years. In any case, unemployed white midwestern males aren't going to be moving to California in droves to go pick berries/wash dishes/etc part time for minimum wage. They could already do that, and demonstrably haven't. There aren't enough of them in any case.

The reason we need more workforce is because fertility rates have been declining and the baby-boomers are retiring. As the fertility and workforce participation rates continue to decrease, as the number of retirees increases, we're going to have a major problem. The easy solution is immigration. Pathway to citizenship for those who want to work.

The easiest pathway to citizenship, the least controversial, the constitutional way, the way that ensures they have the best chance to be productive ... is being born in the US. Educated. Brought up with the belief in the American dream. Throwing those people out makes no sense at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

If the laws made sense the kids would be illegal (and hence non-citizens) since they should have been born in their parents country of origin if their parents had obeyed American laws and not moved to America.

Canada has the same law, and there are very good reasons why that law is the way that it is. The alternatives are much, much worse.

[onodera]

Fewer black men are already being shot. You know that is not going to satisfy BLM. It's all about race baiting and opportunism.

So... shoot more black men?

[onodera]

And speaking about immigration, I again find it bizarre that legal immigrants have less options to stay in the States than illegals. If I come to the US on an H1-B and have a child, I bet you 10k I'll be sent back to Russia with my American child when I'm fired. Children of illegals should get a choice between a foster home or leaving the country with their parents until they are 18.

[kentonio]

We really do have a lot of inhuman ****s here.

[Alexander's Horse]

In all fairness, this election was closer than the margin of error statistically. That's always going to be a problem.
And I personally believe a lot of people didn't want to admit they were going to vote for Trump.
They didn't want to be labeled as stupid white trash.

This is very true, same with gay marriage, some people tell pollsters what they want to hear, also some folks just don't take part in polls period and I suspect a section of the Brexit/Trump crowd fall into that category.

[Bereta_Eder]

About thinking of the children, it depends where you are situated.

If you are in a position to marginally control your borders (say switzerland) then make laws according to that.

If you are in no position to do so, make laws accordingly.

But even that is not an absolut.

When Greece was rich(er) immigration was through the roof. That coupled with a right wing bastard gov that didn't give a rat's ass and social problems arose.

Now everyone wants to go to Germany plus there's a left wing gov that cares for the people.

Problems dissapeared.


(talking about citizenship. Granting rights to the kids to stay here if their parents are here is a no brainer)

[Kidlicious]

We really do have a lot of inhuman ****s here.

Stop talking about yourself.

[Proteus_MST]

...
The easiest pathway to citizenship, the least controversial, the constitutional way, the way that ensures they have the best chance to be productive ... is being born in the US. Educated. Brought up with the belief in the American dream. Throwing those people out makes no sense at all.

But who will then pick berries and wash dishes, if the children of the mexicans get educated in american institutions of education ... and therefore think of themselves to be overqualified for such low paying jobs

[Aeson]

We can hope someday that we get to a point where there is no one so impoverished or desperate in the entire world ... but at least for now there are billions to choose from. Eventually you'd hope that wages for those jobs become high enough to be attractive.

[Kidlicious]

But who will then pick berries and wash dishes, if the children of the mexicans get educated in american institutions of education ... and therefore think of themselves to be overqualified for such low paying jobs

Gloria Steinem says white males.