Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[ZEE]

Elok is a nerd.

[Kidlicious]

Proteus, you're saying that it's a big problem when kids don't get cultural references. It's not. That's not a problem with socialization. A problem with socialization would be something like ending up in prison. Give it up. You can't fix this epic failure.

[Proteus_MST]

Proteus, you're saying that it's a big problem when kids don't get cultural references. It's not. That's not a problem with socialization. A problem with socialization would be something like ending up in prison. Give it up. You can't fix this epic failure.

It is not about criminality, but about social behavior in a normal working environment (with its diverse set of different people with different characters).
The second link I posted have many comments that point at the problems

Examples:

I have hired a couple of people who were homeschooled. They did have some social issues. One did not know how to give people personal space--he had grown up with a large family and apparently they always stood too close to each other. The other employee seemed to not know when a comment was inappropriate--he was too familiar with fellow employees--sometimes saying hurtful things. ...

I employ many people, and every homeschooled person I have hired learn quickly, and do a great job. On the downside every homeschooled person I have hired appear to not have learned to play nicely in the sandbox, self centered social skills.

I have noticed much better social skills, and confidence and self esteem in the ones that are in school vs my home schooled nieces and nephews in all cases
...
These kids need to learn coping skills, be able to make mistakes and rectify mistakes, handle problems by themselves, schedule and keep up with their own activities

http://www.pros-and-cons-of-homeschooling.com/disadvantages-of-homeschooling-social-problems.html

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone ... and there surely are examples of homeschooled kids who probably ended up better being homeschooled than with having been at a public school ... but it seems like social problems (especially with regards to skills needed in a working environment) seem to be widespread.

Which is no surprise ... you may be able to test the knowledge of the kids who are homeschooled, but it is rather difficulty (if not impossible) to asses the quality of the social life they get and the social skills they learn. Therefore there is a wide spread in these regards ... depending on the parents (their pedagogic skills and their willingness to not keep their kids isolated from the outside world)

[Kidlicious]

It is not about criminality, but about social behavior in a normal working environment (with its diverse set of different people with different characters).
The second link I posted have many comments that point at the problems

Examples:

http://www.pros-and-cons-of-homeschooling.com/disadvantages-of-homeschooling-social-problems.html

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone ... and there surely are examples of homeschooled kids who probably ended up better being homeschooled than with having been at a public school ... but it seems like social problems (especially with regards to skills needed in a working environment) seem to be widespread.

Which is no surprise ... you may be able to test the knowledge of the kids who are homeschooled, but it is rather difficulty (if not impossible) to asses the quality of the social life they get and the social skills they learn. Therefore there is a wide spread in these regards ... depending on the parents (their pedagogic skills and their willingness to not keep their kids isolated from the outside world)

I find it hard to believe that you're going on and on with this. Do you think kids learn about personal space at school and not anywhere else? Think this through and drop it. You're better than this. You know that people start sites like that to get ad money right? Do you have any scientific data?

[kentonio]

https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/...nes-in-sweden/

Either the cop is a liar or you're a liar. I know who's side I'm on.

From your very own article you idiot..

But what has been most striking is that there have been literally hundreds of Swedes popping up in various places claiming it’s all made up.

Well gosh, whoever saw that coming. You, like this ****** have convinced yourself that this is real, and will pull any out of context quotes to try and back you up, yet completely ignore the vast numbers of people who actually live in these places that tell you it's farcical nonsense.

Why? I posted evidence that honor killings are being done in Canada by Muslims. We ban truth now?

You knew exactly what you were doing with that vile little attack on Muslims at the end, stop pretending.

Anti Catholic and an anti-Semite. Gosh, you're just a regular, tolerant Euro, eh?

I've been supporting Israel since you were wetting your nappies, so don't talk to me about anti-semitism you pathetic little man.

Hirsi Ali would like to have a chat with you.

Hirsi Ali is an athiest and prominent opponent of religion, and would ****ing hate you. Like everyone else.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes I agree that Hitler wanted to indoctrinate the youth with his own ideologies.
But, as I said, there was no Nazi-Movement before Hitler.
Therefore he needed the indoctrination in order to form his Nazi youths.

Your argument is that anti-Semitism and Nazi ideology didn't exist in Germany prior to Hitler? History disagrees with you there.

Nowadays however, with the Nazi-History of germany, there is a certain percentage of Neonazis,
who are Antisemites, think the KZs were an invention of allied propaganda and want a german Reich in the borders before 1914

See that date, 1914? There were a lot of people like that in 1918 after Versailles. Those are the people that voted for Hitler in '32. So your argument disproves itself.

Noone in their right mind would want them (or other loonies, like islamists, flat earthers, creationists etc. ) to be the only people who have an influence on their children.

Funny then that the ideology itself supports government control over education because that's what fascism teaches.

I also point to this, about the socialization problems of homeschoolers:

That's not justification for banning Homeschooling.

They are not the same ... the one is a religious ceremony and the other one (which should be equally available for heterosexual and homosexual couples) determines their rights in society (like adoption, heritage, visitation rights in hospital, the right to bear the partners last name and so on)

They are different. But you are claiming they are the same. That is why you're using the same word for both. That is why you're saying that two things that are different are the same, because you believe that they have the same meaning.

They usually have sex in another way .... but I am sure that the love within a homosexual couple is the same as for a heterosexual couple ... similarly their commitment to spend the rest of their lifes together ... and maybe also their wish to raise kids together.

Scientifically they are different. If two things have different results - sex between a man and a woman produces kids, then objectively they are different. This is basic science.

As for love, I love my grandmother. Should I marry her?

Where should we deport them to?

Syria? They want sharia law, they can go there.

Are the USA deporting US-Citizens who want to replace the US law with Sharia? If not, why not?

If they want sharia law they should go to where sharia law already exists.

"them" referred to the greeks and not the persians.

And Hammurabi was not a greek.

My main point is, that the main initial influence on the roman justice system (and not only on this) came from the greek culture.

You really need to study up on this. NOPE!

My referral to the Babylonians/Persians was only a digression that should point at any additional influences on the greek system from outside.

Rome got many things from outside. Roman Law is not one of those things. You'd know it if you knew anything beyond Wikipedia. Which is a bit shocking but I guess Europeans don't study their culture.

But neither do I want to start a discussion to what extent the greek culture/civilization was influenced by the culture that Megas Alexandros encountered in his conquest of the persian empire, nor does it in any way touch the main point I am making which, as I should repeat, is, that the roman justice system was influenced by the greek system.

Except.. it wasn't and Hammurabi had no connection with the Greeks at all. By the time the Greeks came to Rome, Roman Law was in operation for 500 years.

[Ben Kenobi]

You knew exactly what you were doing with that vile little attack on Muslims at the end, stop pretending.

It's the truth. Muslims come to Canada and do honor killings in Canada. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth!

I've been supporting Israel since you were wetting your nappies, so don't talk to me about anti-semitism you pathetic little man.

Which is why you were smearing Orthodox Jews? I see.

[Ming]

One more time BK...
Other religions allow marriages for gays... They are just practicing religious freedom.
Yet you don't want to allow it. So, is religious freedom only for your religion and not others?

[kentonio]

It's the truth. Muslims come to Canada and do honor killings in Canada. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth!

Conflating being Muslim with commiting honor killings is despicable, and beyond hypocritical considering how quick you are to claim that Christians shouldn't be held account for any bad actions committed by Christians. Then again hypocrisy is just par for the course with you.

Which is why you were smearing Orthodox Jews? I see.

So now you're trying to lump all Orthodox Jews in with the ones who have actually committed murders and acts of violence? Amazing how you only see people of other religions as a single mass entity, while simultaneously expecting completely different standards for your own religion. You're a bit of a **** aren't you.

[Proteus_MST]

Your argument is that anti-Semitism and Nazi ideology didn't exist in Germany prior to Hitler? History disagrees with you there.

No, I didn't say that Antisemitism didn't exist in germany prior to the Nazis.
But the complex of ANtisemitism, Nationalism and Aryan Megalomania surely was introduced with the Nazis.

Also the last free elections in germany before the Nazis took power, in 1933, got the NSDAP just short below 44% (with a voting turnout of a little bit or 80%).
And most of the voters surely voted them because of the economic situation and not because they were Antisemites or did buy into any beliefs of aryan superiority.

I am sure that Hitler wasn't satisfied with just having the support of roughtly 37 % of the population

See that date, 1914? There were a lot of people like that in 1918 after Versailles. Those are the people that voted for Hitler in '32. So your argument disproves itself.

Those are some of the people that voted for Hitler.
The majority of the people who voted for Hitler surely did so because of the NSDAPs promises to improve the economic situation
(and the failures of the Weimar republic to do so)

That's not justification for banning Homeschooling.

Not wanting to give people the opportunity to breed racists, antisemites and terrorists IMHO is a good reason to ban homeschooling
Considering the result of the last PISA study in 2012, I can understand however, that people in the USA don't have trust in the US school system and even non religious fundamentalist people want to homeschool their kids, if possible,

Page 5:

http://www.oecd.org/berlin/themen/PISA-2012-Zusammenfassung.pdf

1/4 of american students who took part in the PISA study were classified as especially low archieving with regards to mathematics and the percentage of low archieving students in natural sciences is higher than the OECD average.
All in all the USA is placed in the lower half of the ranking list, 2 places below russia

Perhaps I would also prefer to homeschool my kids, if living in a country with such a school system (but would, at least, give them additional lessons at home)

They are different. But you are claiming they are the same. That is why you're using the same word for both. That is why you're saying that two things that are different are the same, because you believe that they have the same meaning.

A penguin is different from a dove, nevertheless both are called birds.
A muslim marriage is different from a catholic marriage nevertheless both are called marriages and in both cases the couple counts as married afterwards.
You are splitting hairs here, Ben

Scientifically they are different. If two things have different results - sex between a man and a woman produces kids, then objectively they are different. This is basic science.

More hair splitting.
So in your opinion the love in an infertile (male-female) couple is also different, as they cannot produce any offspring.
Also, obviously your grandma cannot love your grandpa anymore (the same way that a fertile woman loves a man), because she also has become infertile with her Menopause.

Syria? They want sharia law, they can go there.

If they want sharia law they should go to where sharia law already exists.

Deporting citizens also is a sign of fascism, you know

Also it seems like you imagine things to be easier than they are.
You cannot send simply send people away to other states. It requires that those states are willing to take them up.
And that actually is the main problem we have ... there are many people with denied asylum status in germany, who would have to be deported.
However, the problem is, that many of them have no papers from their state of origin (actually one can assume that most of them willfully destroyed them/threw them away).
Now, what the embassies of their states of origin in this case love to do is, to deliberately delay the paperwork that is required to issue them replacement papers. And without those replacement papers, we cannot send them back to their states of origin.
Therefore, we have lots of asylum seekers whose application for asylum has been denied, but who cannot be sent back for the reasons mentioned above.
Actually the main perpetrators for the sylvester incident in colonia were of this kind ... north africans who would have to be deported back to their countgries of origin, but cannot, because of missing papers.

And Hammurabi was not a greek.

Which I didn't claim.

You really need to study up on this. NOPE!

Rome got many things from outside. Roman Law is not one of those things. You'd know it if you knew anything beyond Wikipedia. Which is a bit shocking but I guess Europeans don't study their culture.

Except.. it wasn't and Hammurabi had no connection with the Greeks at all. By the time the Greeks came to Rome, Roman Law was in operation for 500 years.

After eight years of political struggle, the plebeian social class convinced the patricians to send a delegation to Athens, to copy the Laws of Solon; they also dispatched delegations to other Greek cities for like reason

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law#The_Twelve_Tables

No matter whether this story is true or not, the fact remains that greece had colonies on italian soil, as far north as Neapolis (as the name of the city already says, which has greece roots ). WIth other words, rome, in its very beginnings, already sat at the doorsteps of magna graecia.

The debate of history scholars therefore also isn't, whether or not the first roman laws were influenced by the greece, but rather, whether there really was a delegation to the citiers in the greek mainland, or if it was influenced by the greek colonies in magna graecia.

Many scholars consider it unlikely that the patricians sent an official delegation to Greece, as the Roman historians believed. Instead, those scholars suggest, the Romans acquired Greek legislations from the Greek cities of Magna Graecia, the main portal between the Roman and Greek worlds.

I hope you are no teacher of classes for the history of europe antiquity at your school

[Ben Kenobi]

Other religions allow marriages for gays... They are just practicing religious freedom.
Yet you don't want to allow it. So, is religious freedom only for your religion and not others?

Plenty of things are banned, including polygamy.

[Ben Kenobi]

Conflating being Muslim with commiting honor killings is despicable, and beyond hypocritical considering how quick you are to claim that Christians shouldn't be held account for any bad actions committed by Christians. Then again hypocrisy is just par for the course with you.

I do believe that Christians should be held responsible for their bad actions. However, with regards to pedophilia, Christians are no more likely to commit pedophilia than anyone else, contrary to what you've stated thousands of times.

I've never said that Christians should get 'Christian courts'. Sharia is contrary to rule of law.

As for honor killings, yes Muslims do them in Canada, and I provided evidence showing this was so from a general source in Canada, the National Post. I'm not sure why you're having a hard time accepting that yes, this is true.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, I didn't say that Antisemitism didn't exist in germany prior to the Nazis.
But the complex of ANtisemitism, Nationalism and Aryan Megalomania surely was introduced with the Nazis.

Antisemitism is much, much older than Hitler. As is German nationalism. Mueller's anthropology introduced the concept of Aryanism in 1861, right along with the origin of the species. This is why it flourished alongside social Darwinism.

So, again - the complex of all three dates to about the 1880s in Germany, 10 years before Hitler was born. Hitler wasn't a unicorn in Germany and the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.

I say that as someone of German descent myself from OstPreuBen.

Also the last free elections in germany before the Nazis took power, in 1933, got the NSDAP just short below 44% (with a voting turnout of a little bit or 80%).
And most of the voters surely voted them because of the economic situation and not because they were Antisemites or did buy into any beliefs of aryan superiority.

Some because of the economics which were exacerbated by Versailles, sure. But some did vote Nazi because they agreed with what the Nazis taught. If you're going to be truly denazified, you can't just scapegoat Hitler without accepting that it was a broad feeling among many Germans at the time.

I'm actually kind of shocked that a purportedly Leftwing German believes that Hitler was a unicorn.

I am sure that Hitler wasn't satisfied with just having the support of roughtly 37 % of the population

It's more than Merkel has. 37 percent is an enormous number.

Not wanting to give people the opportunity to breed communists, antisemites and terrorists IMHO is a good reason to ban homeschooling

Fixed that for you. Freedom is freedom.

Considering the result of the last PISA study in 2012, I can understand however, that people in the USA don't have trust in the US school system and even non religious fundamentalist people want to homeschool their kids.

Homeschooling is a part of liberty and fundamental freedoms. It is sad that Germans are less free than Americans.

The debate of history scholars therefore also isn't, whether or not the first roman laws were influenced by the greece, but rather, whether there really was a delegation to the citiers in the greek mainland, or if it was influenced by the greek colonies in magna graecia.

This is mere speculation.

One, we don't have the original source of the Roman 12 tablets, so we cannot actually assess and compare these laws to prove that there are similarities between Solon's laws and the Roman Laws.

Two, that the laws are similar is not evidence that they were indeed taken from Solon. There is nothing stopping different places from having similar laws.

Three, there's zero connection between Solon and Hammurabi, other than wishful thinking.

A penguin is different from a dove, nevertheless both are called birds.
A muslim marriage is different from a catholic marriage nevertheless both are called marriages and in both cases the couple counts as married afterwards.
You are splitting hairs here, Ben

I would argue that muslim polygamy is sufficiently different to warrant the term marriage being used apart from the Christian sense.

Also it seems like you imagine things to be easier than they are.

Someone who prefers sharia law to the point of advocating for it in Canada or the US should be sent to a country that prefers sharia law. Citizenship or no.

You cannot send simply send people away to other states. It requires that those states are willing to take them up.

Sure you can. Australia sends them back all the time.

And that actually is the main problem we have ... there are many people with denied asylum status in germany, who would have to be deported.

Germany's problem is that they are too soft on 'refugees' that show up to Germany. If you can't send them home when they show up that is a serious problem for Germany in general.

Turkey has room for them, let them go to Turkey and stay there.

However, the problem is, that many of them have no papers from their state of origin (actually one can assume that most of them willfully destroyed them/threw them away).

So send them to Turkey. Just because they have no passport is no excuse for them to take advantage of Germany. That's their problem to sort out their own mess.

Now, what the embassies of their states of origin in this case love to do is, to deliberately delay the paperwork that is required to issue them replacement papers. And without those replacement papers, we cannot send them back to their states of origin.

One way bus ticket to Turkey. If Turkey complains then Turkey can explain why it let these people across their borders in the first place.

Therefore, we have lots of asylum seekers whose application for asylum has been denied, but who cannot be sent back for the reasons mentioned above.

Sure they could be sent back. You just lack the political will to do so.

[Ming]

Plenty of things are banned, including polygamy.

Gee... but gay marriages are legal in the US so your straw man argument doesn't even come close to applying.
The only thing approaching being "Banned" is one religion trying to stop another religion from practicing their religious rights which are legal under the current laws.

So yet again, you only seem to care about religious freedom when it's your religion and not others.
So in reality, you don't believe in religious freedom even though you scream for it all the time.

[kentonio]

I do believe that Christians should be held responsible for their bad actions. However, with regards to pedophilia, Christians are no more likely to commit pedophilia than anyone else, contrary to what you've stated thousands of times.

It's not my fault that the supposed paragons of your religion had a disturbing tendency to rape small children, and then the heirarchy of your church chose to cover up those offences and increase the trauma and suffering of those poor children.

I've never said that Christians should get 'Christian courts'. Sharia is contrary to rule of law.

Except that Sharia moderation courts already exist in the UK and are not contrary to the rule of law, but complementary. Which you'd know if you actually listened to anything anyone said, instead of assuming you're always right.

As for honor killings, yes Muslims do them in Canada, and I provided evidence showing this was so from a general source in Canada, the National Post. I'm not sure why you're having a hard time accepting that yes, this is true.

And Catholic priests raped children, which we have amply sources of from respected media outlets across the world. So following your logic in this thread, all Catholics are dangerous paedophiles who must be kept out of the country.