Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ming]

Ming thinks there aren't any violent, bigoted gays. How precious.

Kis thinks there aren't just as many if not far more violent bigoted Christians. How precious.

[Kidlicious]

If homeschooling breeds Nazis why didn't Hitler permit homeschooling?

Is it because Hitler used public school to turn kids into Nazis? There, I Godwinned it for you. Now you don't have to. Hitler didn't allow homeschooling because he didn't want parents teaching anything that he didn't approve of, same as Proteus.

[Kidlicious]

Kis thinks there aren't just as many if not far more violent bigoted Christians. How precious.

There is very little violence committed against gays by Christians. Furthermore, you always say Christian in a bigoted way. There are Christians who use violence against gays etc., and Christians that don't. Bakers that don't make gay wedding cakes aren't the kind that use violence. Go take your bigotry back home.

[Kidlicious]

The codex Hammurabi ... and after that the greek who, I guess, are the ones who were the greatest influence in forming the civilization of the roman empire ... which in turn influenced the society in the european states that came after that

Indeed, all the heavier crimes are made punishable with death. Even if a man builds a house badly, and it falls and kills the owner, the builder is to be slain. If the owner's son was killed, then the builder's son is slain. We can see where the Hebrews learned their law of "an eye for an eye." These grim retaliatory punishments take no note of excuses or explanations, but only of the fact--with one striking exception. An accused person was allowed to cast himself into "the river," the Euphrates. Apparently the art of swimming was unknown; for if the current bore him to the shore alive he was declared innocent, if he drowned he was guilty.

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.asp

[Kidlicious]

Not really ...
muslims are allowed to follow their faith as long as they don't come into conflict with german laws.
Even Neonazis are allowed to hold demonstrations, as long as they don't surpass the limits of what free speech allows in germany.

And just as certain Neonazi groups are under opbservation of our Federal office for the protection of the constitution, there are also certain mosques in germany, as well as certain preachers, under observation.

Can Neonazis form a 1000 man gang and go raping as many women as they can without the police doing a damn thing?

[Kidlicious]

Sure, there are some muslims who would like the Sharia to replace the german one ... most however are happy with the german law.

What is "most," 51%? Do you have a statistic?

[Proteus_MST]

Can Neonazis form a 1000 man gang and go raping as many women as they can without the police doing a damn thing?

If they are at a location where there is too little police ... at a time when the police is overburdened with other locations as well ...
then I am sure that also Neonazis could accomplish this

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.asp

Yup, it is no surprise that Judaism was influenced by this,
considering the time that a part of their population spent in Babylon.

After all it also seems that similarly also their Story of Noach and the flood was inspired by babylonian mythology
(Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh Epos)

[kentonio]

Uh, yeah, they do exist. We seem to have this argument quite a bit. I argue that something that does exist, exists while you argue that it's fearmongering. We can't both be right. Yes, no-go zones exist in Europe and have for some time now. I have maps, etc.

Of course we can't both be right, you are basically wrong every time you open your mouth. You have maps? You're a joke, I actually live here and travel frequently all over Europe. There is NO place in Western Europe where the police will not go, and frankly if you think there are then you're delusional.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...seek-new-trial

Sadly, evidence is precipitating that honor killings have come to the west. Along with Islam.

So in defense of your attack on Sharia mediation courts you post an article that has absolutely nothing to do with Sharia mediation courts.

Oh and you should be banned again for that last part.

There's just been one in the past 20 years. Tiller.

There have been at least 20 honor killings PER YEAR, documented in Canada, and probably about 200, 300 per year in the United states. Nice try, but no dice.

You lying ****.

Special pleading is a beautiful thing. At least it roots out the anti-semites.

**** off you bigotted twat, even mentioning anti-semitism as a defense for ultra orthodox killings is beyond pathetic. Then again I suppose you're used to having to defend the indefensible given you're an ardent supporter of the church of child rape.

When Islamic sharia courts stop trying to kill ex-muslims, I'll happily report that as so.

Provide a single example of a Western Sharia court trying to kill an ex-Muslim or STFU.

[Kidlicious]

If they are at a location where there is too little police ... at a time when the police is overburdened with other locations as well ...
then I am sure that also Neonazis could accomplish this

You know the New Year's incident wasn't a case of the police being overwhelmed. There were reinforcements available. The police chose not to do anything because they didn't want to get in trouble. No, Nazis could not have done that because your government would be all over them.

Yup, it is no surprise that Judaism was influenced by this,
considering the time that a part of their population spent in Babylon.

After all it also seems that similarly also their Story of Noach and the flood was inspired by babylonian mythology
(Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh Epos)

You should read the article. Hammurabi didn't even develop the code. There were codes before Hammurabi. Hammurabi mostly codified law that had existed for a long time.

[Kidlicious]

Nope they aren't
Wifes must submit to their husbands:
Ephesians 5:22-24


Even today, some christians interpret this passage, coupled with the bibles silence on spanking as an indication, that spanking is allowed in order to discipline the wife

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/christian-domestic-discipline-spanking-jesus-marriage_n_3479646.html

Just as the slavers/slaveholders were christians.
AFAIK no high ranking church officials spoke out against slavery at this time



Well, to define my answer more broadly:
The ability of people (in the western civilized world) to follow their dreams free from oppression (as long as their lifestyle doesn't directly hurt other people) has increased. Also justice and equal treatment in the western world have increased, while injustice has increased compared to former centuries.
Parts of the population that formerly had no major say in politics (women, coloured people) now have the same capabilities to elect and be elected as male whitesThis

This makes nowadays society with western society with its values profoundly better than the society in past centuries

You're defining "justice" differently than the bible does. Your idea of justice is equality in the modern sense. I don't know exactly to what extend, but since you're sort of left leaning I will say equality of outcomes (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The bible defines "justice" as treating people the way that Jesus treats people. It's got nothing to do with rights or central distribution of resources etc...

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? ...

-James 2

You see it's about what's in the heart, not some compromise between political parties. It's not some ideology. It means loving your enemy. This is why we Christians are not under the law anymore. That's not "justice." That's law. But the world calls it "justice."

Now what BK was referring to was a quote from Martin Luther King Jr., who did in fact fight for equal rights for all people, but he believed in more than that. That's what it seems like the left tries to hide by not calling him a reverend. He would be dismayed if he saw what is going on right now in America. We have equal rights for all people, but there is so much division that it would sicken him.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Well, I suppose I could type in italics...

Not to pile on, but this is genuinely witty, Ben.

[Proteus_MST]

You know the New Year's incident wasn't a case of the police being overwhelmed. There were reinforcements available. The police chose not to do anything because they didn't want to get in trouble. No, Nazis could not have done that because your government would be all over them.

All we know is a little bit murky down the road ...
the one fact that can be established is, that the situation was incorrectly assessed
but that has nothing to do with the police treating foreigners and germans differently

You should read the article. Hammurabi didn't even develop the code. There were codes before Hammurabi. Hammurabi mostly codified law that had existed for a long time.

Yes, there are older codices ... sumerian ones, i.e. from the predecessor of the Babylonians

You're defining "justice" differently than the bible does. Your idea of justice is equality in the modern sense. I don't know exactly to what extend, but since you're sort of left leaning I will say equality of outcomes (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The bible defines "justice" as treating people the way that Jesus treats people. It's got nothing to do with rights or central distribution of resources etc...


-James 2

You see it's about what's in the heart, not some compromise between political parties. It's not some ideology. It means loving your enemy. This is why we Christians are not under the law anymore. That's not "justice." That's law. But the world calls it "justice."

Now what BK was referring to was a quote from Martin Luther King Jr., who did in fact fight for equal rights for all people, but he believed in more than that. That's what it seems like the left tries to hide by not calling him a reverend. He would be dismayed if he saw what is going on right now in America. We have equal rights for all people, but there is so much division that it would sicken him.

Well, I don't think why I shouldn't define justice differently than the bible does ... the bible also think it is O.K., to punish other people for things one person has done (for example punishing the Israelites for transgressions of their leader (David for example), punishing children for the things their parents have done and so on. That's all part of biblical justice.

As for equality in the biblical sense:
Even if we limit ourselves to the new testament the bible sends different messages.

For example, women should be quiet in congregation and obey their husbands.
And people shouldn't attain to strive for a better lot, but rather should be satiosfied with their nsocial position. For example, slaves should obey their masters instead of taking steps to become free people.
The social world in most parts of the bible is a strictly hierarchical one.

And yes, insofar you are correct ... the bible is not about "rights" ... it is about being satisfied about your position even if you have fewer rights than other people

Which actually is consistent with the behavior of the catholic church over the centuries ...
the RCC did integrate itself very well into the feudal world of the medieval times, becoming itself part of the ruling class (next to nobility) and telling the lower classes to be satisfied with their position in the social system.
Very likely we still would have the feudal system, if the RCC had kept the influence it had during medieval times (without the renaissance and its slow steps of secularization of society)

I agree, of course that some messages of the bible (like "Love thy enemy"/"Love your neighbor as yourself") are very good and should be guidelines even for todays people ... but unfortunately the bible doesn't contain only such positive messages but also many that can be (and have been (ab-)used to support systems of inequality/oppression

[Berzerker]

whats so good about loving your enemies, dispatch them to the nether realm without a moments haste

[ZEE]

classic YHWH-worshipper response.

Father Satan is pleased by your words, Berz. Let the hate FLOW through you.

[Kidlicious]

All we know is a little bit murky down the road ...
the one fact that can be established is, that the situation was incorrectly assessed
but that has nothing to do with the police treating foreigners and germans differently



Yes, there are older codices ... sumerian ones, i.e. from the predecessor of the Babylonians



Well, I don't think why I shouldn't define justice differently than the bible does ... the bible also think it is O.K., to punish other people for things one person has done (for example punishing the Israelites for transgressions of their leader (David for example), punishing children for the things their parents have done and so on. That's all part of biblical justice.

As for equality in the biblical sense:
Even if we limit ourselves to the new testament the bible sends different messages.

For example, women should be quiet in congregation and obey their husbands.
And people shouldn't attain to strive for a better lot, but rather should be satiosfied with their nsocial position. For example, slaves should obey their masters instead of taking steps to become free people.
The social world in most parts of the bible is a strictly hierarchical one.

And yes, insofar you are correct ... the bible is not about "rights" ... it is about being satisfied about your position even if you have fewer rights than other people

Which actually is consistent with the behavior of the catholic church over the centuries ...
the RCC did integrate itself very well into the feudal world of the medieval times, becoming itself part of the ruling class (next to nobility) and telling the lower classes to be satisfied with their position in the social system.
Very likely we still would have the feudal system, if the RCC had kept the influence it had during medieval times (without the renaissance and its slow steps of secularization of society)

I agree, of course that some messages of the bible (like "Love thy enemy"/"Love your neighbor as yourself") are very good and should be guidelines even for todays people ... but unfortunately the bible doesn't contain only such positive messages but also many that can be (and have been (ab-)used to support systems of inequality/oppression

1) I find it incredible that you can't see that Muslims were treated special on that horrible day in your country. The police did not just assess the situation incorrectly. I'm a bit worried for your country if most of you think this way.

2) The Isrealites descended from a Sumerian tribe as well. So you can't say that they got their law from the Babalonians. Hammurabi may well have gotten some of his law from them.

3) You're misrepresenting the bible. Find me Christians that believe what you say that the bible says. No one should listen to anyone tell them what the bibles says if that person is not Christian.