Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Kidlicious]

Not wanting to give people the opportunity to breed racists, antisemites and terrorists IMHO is a good reason to ban homeschooling

Do you have any evidence that homeschooled children are racist, anti-Semites and/or terrorists? I don't think you do, otherwise you would have provided such evidence.

As I've already stated, all of the mass shooters attended public schools here in the US, with the exception of one, who was mentally ill, and his mentally ill mother pulled him from school. No one is saying that mentally ill children should be homeschooled by their mentally ill mother.

So what about terrorists? Do you think your public school is discouraging people from becoming terrorists? I bet I can show you evidence to the contrary. Also, I have a good idea that your school teaches white washed history that makes western civilization look evil, and Islamic civilization look like victims. Think that discourages terrorism? I don't.

Racist/anti-Semites? Need evidence.

[Kidlicious]

Islam in America's public schools: Education or indoctrination?

Cinnamon Stillwell

Published 4:00 am, Wednesday, June 11, 2008

With fatal terrorist attacks on the decline worldwide and al Qaeda apparently in disarray, it would seem a time for optimism in the global war on terrorism. But the war has simply shifted to a different arena. Islamists, or those who believe that Islam is a political and religious system that must dominate all others, are focusing less on the military and more on the ideological. It turns out that Western liberal democracies can be subverted without firing a shot.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the educational realm. Islamists have taken what's come to be known as the "soft jihad" into America's classrooms and children in K-12 are the first casualties. Whether it is textbooks, curriculum, classroom exercises, film screenings, speakers or teacher training, public education in America is under assault.

Capitalizing on the post-9/11 demand for Arabic instruction, some public, charter and voucher-funded private schools are inappropriately using taxpayer dollars to implement a religious curriculum. They are also bringing in outside speakers with Islamist ties or sympathies. As a result, not only are children receiving a biased education, but possible violations of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause abound. Consider the following cases:


•Last month, students at Friendswood Junior High in Houston were required to attend an "Islamic Awareness" presentation during class time allotted for physical education. The presentation involved two representatives from the Council on American-Islamic Relations, an organization with a record of Islamist statements and terrorism convictions. According to students, they were taught that "there is one God, his name is Allah" and that "Adam, Noah and Jesus are prophets." Students were also taught about the Five Pillars of Islam and how to pray five times a day and wear Islamic religious garb. Parents were not notified about the presentation and it wasn't until a number of complaints arose that school officials responded with an apologetic e-mail.

•Earlier this year at Lake Brantley High School in Seminole County, Fla., speakers from the Academy for Learning Islam gave a presentation to students about "cultural diversity" that extended to a detailed discussion of the Quran and Islam. The school neither screened the ALI speakers nor notified parents. After a number of complaints, local media coverage and a subsequent investigation, the school district apologized for the inappropriate presentation, admitting that it violated the law. Subsequently, ALI was removed from the Seminole County school system's Dividends and Speaker's Bureau.

•As reported by the Cabinet Press, a school project last year at Amherst Middle School transformed "the quaint colonial town of Amherst, N.H., into a Saudi Arabian Bedouin tent community." Male and female students were segregated, with the girls hosting "hijab and veil stations" and handing out the oppressive head-to-toe black garment known as the abaya to female guests. Meanwhile, the boys hosted food and Arabic dancing stations because, as explained in the article, "the traditions of Saudi Arabia at this time prevent women from participating in these public roles." An "Islamic religion station" offered up a prayer rug, verses from the Quran, prayer items and a compass pointed towards Mecca. The fact that female subjugation was presented as a benign cultural practice and Islamic religious rituals were promoted with public funds is cause for concern.

•Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy, a charter school in Inver Grove Heights, Minn., came under recent scrutiny after Minneapolis Star-Tribune columnist Katherine Kersten brought to light concerns about public funding for its overtly religious curriculum. The school is housed in the Muslim American Society's (the American branch of the Egyptian Islamist group the Muslim Brotherhood) Minnesota building, alongside a mosque, and the daily routine includes prayer, ritual washing, halal food preparation and an after-school "Islamic studies" program. Kersten's columns prompted the Minnesota chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union to issue a press release expressing its own reservations about potential First Amendment violations. An investigation initiated by the Minnesota Department of Education verified several of Kersten's allegations and the school has since promised to make the appropriate changes. In a bizarre twist, when a local television news crew tried to report on the findings from school grounds, school officials confronted them and wrestled a camera away from one of its photographers, injuring him in the process.

•The controversy surrounding the founding of New York City's Arabic language public school, Khalil Gibran International Academy, last year continues. Former principal Dhabah "Debbie" Almontaser was asked to step down after publicly defending T-shirts produced by Arab Women Active in the Arts and Media, an organization with whom she shared office space, emblazoned with "Intifada NYC." But KGIA has other troublesome associations. Its advisory board includes three imams, one of whom, New York University Imam Khalid Latif, sent a threatening letter to the university's president regarding a planned display of the Danish cartoons. Another, Shamsi Ali, runs the Jamaica Muslim Center Quranic Memorization School in Queens, a replica of the type of Pakistani madrassa (or school) counter-terrorism officials have been warning about since 9/11. Accordingly, several parents founded Stop the Madrassa: A Community Coalition to voice their contention that KGIA is an inappropriate candidate for taxpayer funding.

Equally problematic are the textbooks used in American public schools to teach Islam or Islamic history. Organizations such as Southern California's Council on Islamic Education and Arabic World and Islamic Resources are tasked with screening and editing these textbooks for public school districts, but questions have been raised about the groups' scholarship and ideological agenda. The American Textbook Council, an organization that reviews history and social studies textbooks used in American schools, and its director, Gilbert T. Sewall, have produced a series of articles and reports on Islam textbooks and the findings are damning. They include textbooks that are factually inaccurate, misrepresent and in some cases, glorify Islam, or are hostile to other religions. While teaching students about Islam within a religious studies context may be appropriate, the purpose becomes suspect when the texts involved are compromised in this manner.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Islam-in-America-s-public-schools-Education-or-2482820.php

Is this how to stop terrorism?

[Ben Kenobi]

Gee... but gay marriages are legal in the US so your straw man argument doesn't even come close to applying.

"All religious teachings should be permitted"
"Polygamy is banned throughout the united states, ergo the argument, "all religious teachings are permitted in the US' has no merit.

The only thing approaching being "Banned" is one religion trying to stop another religion from practicing their religious rights which are legal under the current laws.

Polygamy, again, remains banned in the United States. I know this is hard for you to admit but not all religions are equal. Of course what you want to say is that every religion save Catholicism is good.

So yet again, you only seem to care about religious freedom when it's your religion and not others.

There are good reasons for the state to recognize marriage between one man and one woman. Not the least of which that children have a right to their mother and father.

So in reality, you don't believe in religious freedom even though you scream for it all the time.

I'm not a moral relativist, Ming.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's not my fault that the supposed paragons of your religion had a disturbing tendency to rape small children, and then the heirarchy of your church chose to cover up those offences and increase the trauma and suffering of those poor children.

And yet, they are just as likely to do so as the public school teachers who were the 'moral paragons' that I grew up with.

Except that Sharia moderation courts already exist in the UK and are not contrary to the rule of law, but complementary. Which you'd know if you actually listened to anything anyone said, instead of assuming you're always right.

Uh, Sharia courts are contrary to English Common Law. This is the fundamental disagreement, Kentonio. You believe that it's ok for muslim wives to be beaten in Europe, stoned for 'dishonoring their family', and muslim girls to receive similar punishments. You probably support clitorectomy as well.

My question for you, is why do you support these things, Kentonio? What's in it for you?

And Catholic priests raped children, which we have amply sources of from respected media outlets across the world. So following your logic in this thread, all Catholics are dangerous paedophiles who must be kept out of the country.

Are Catholics setting up their own court system in which Catholic law prevails over that of secular society?

[kentonio]

And yet, they are just as likely to do so as the public school teachers who were the 'moral paragons' that I grew up with.

Did those public schools then undertake a mass coverup on behalf of the teachers?

Uh, Sharia courts are contrary to English Common Law. This is the fundamental disagreement, Kentonio.

No, they are not. You're an idiot.

You believe that it's ok for muslim wives to be beaten in Europe, stoned for 'dishonoring their family', and muslim girls to receive similar punishments. You probably support clitorectomy as well.

Oh I do, do I? Interesting how your rampant anti-Islamic ranting is becoming ever more unhinged.

My question for you, is why do you support these things, Kentonio? What's in it for you?

Do you really think we're not used to your bull**** by now? You use the same tiresome trolling technique every time, and are dumb enough to assume no-one notices.

Ben: I believe A!
Poster: I think you are wrong, and B is correct.
Ben: You believe C! Why would you believe C? That must mean you believe D, E, F, G and H! You are the worst person EVER!
Poster: *sigh*

Are Catholics setting up their own court system in which Catholic law prevails over that of secular society?

You did unfortunately for well over a thousand years. Luckily we got wise and told your child abuse apologist bunch of god botherers to get fecked.

[rah]

There are good reasons for the state to recognize marriage between one man and one woman.

And there are good reasons for the state to recognize marriage between one man and one man (or one woman and one woman)
Not the least of which to give them the same legal rights of other married couples.

So what's your point. Oh right, you don't agree so it's wrong.
Go explain again to your gay "friends" why they don't deserve the same rights as you, while PRETENDING to be their friend.
And don't give us your typical **** that you were there for them when they were in need. If you were truly there, you'd be supporting their equal rights.
Or better yet, give them the link to poly and let them read your vile hatred themselves and let them determine just how there you are for them.

And ditto. get fecked.

[Ming]

"All religious teachings should be permitted"
"Polygamy is banned throughout the united states, ergo the argument, "all religious teachings are permitted in the US' has no merit.

But gay marriages aren't banned... They are legal in the US. We aren't talking about polygamy. Yet another example that you don't believe in religious freedoms unless it's your religion.

Polygamy, again, remains banned in the United States. I know this is hard for you to admit but not all religions are equal. Of course what you want to say is that every religion save Catholicism is good.

I know this is hard for you to admit, but all religions are equal. Catholicism doesn't write the laws of this land.

There are good reasons for the state to recognize marriage between one man and one woman. Not the least of which that children have a right to their mother and father.

And they do recognize marriage between one man and one woman, or one man and one man, and one woman and one woman. Nobody is saying the government shouldn't... except you. You want to deny other religion of their rights to practice lawful acts.

I'm not a moral relativist, Ming.

Nahhh... you are just a sad little bigot.

[Berzerker]

Ben's proof he supports religious freedom is his support for a ban on polygamy?

[rah]

Yeah, ben logic. Go figure.

[Kidlicious]

Ben's proof he supports religious freedom is his support for a ban on polygamy?

Maybe he thinks he can only get one wife and other people might marry up all the women.

[Ben Kenobi]

Did those public schools then undertake a mass coverup on behalf of the teachers?

Yes. Many continue to draw their pensions.

No, they are not. You're an idiot.

Wow, what a refutation.

Oh I do, do I? Interesting how your rampant anti-Islamic ranting is becoming ever more unhinged.

These are all parts of sharia law, Kentonio.

Do you really think we're not used to your bull**** by now? You use the same tiresome trolling technique every time, and are dumb enough to assume no-one notices.

My argument is pretty simple. Sharia law says that clitorectomy is permissible. Clitorectomy is contrary to the English justice system because it mutilates women and girls. Yet, somehow you state that there's no conflict.

Your refutation is to simply sling insults.

Why would that convince anyone?

You did unfortunately for well over a thousand years. Luckily we got wise and told your child abuse apologist bunch of god botherers to get fecked.

And you expect us to turn a blind eye when you're arguing "sharia is exactly like the English code"? No, it's not. At least honest seculars like Hirsaan Ali have pointed this out many times.

[Ben Kenobi]

But gay marriages aren't banned... They are legal in the US. We aren't talking about polygamy. Yet another example that you don't believe in religious freedoms unless it's your religion.

But Polygamy is. If 'freedom of religion' were unfettered in America, it would be permitted. However, it is not. Ergo, one can conclude that restrictions on religious freedom in America are permissible.

There are other examples of banned religious practices in the United States, including burning your widow on a pyre.

Ergo, you're going to have to find another argument, Ming.

I know this is hard for you to admit, but all religions are equal. Catholicism doesn't write the laws of this land.

Oh, I see. So when a plane is hijacked and flown into the World Trade Centre in the name of Allah, we are supposed to conclude that all religions are equal? No, they are not, Ming.

3000 American lives on American soil say otherwise.

Nobody is saying the government shouldn't... except you. You want to deny other religion of their rights to practice lawful acts.

Children can and do have a right to both their parents, mother and father. State protection for marriage between one man and one woman protects the children involved. Sadly most people believe that love cannot exist without marriage, but what they don't understand is that there is a great value in parents staying together and raising their children.

And plenty of people are saying this, Ming. Just because you don't listen to them, doesn't mean we don't exist.

I'm not a moral relativist, Ming. Nahhh... you are just a sad little bigot.

Tell that to a child who's needs come dead last in this social experiment. What are you going to say, that they are a bigot for being unhappy?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben's proof he supports religious freedom is his support for a ban on polygamy?

My argument is that not all religions are equal, ergo we should not treat all religions the same. It's a challenging argument, I know because you're not usually exposed to it, however, I'm certainly willing to defend the argument that some religions are better than others.

[Ben Kenobi]

Go explain again to your gay "friends" why they don't deserve the same rights as you, while PRETENDING to be their friend.

Why are you presuming to speak for someone you've never talked to? You're assuming that your beliefs are the same as his.

Makes no sense to me. Essentially you're arguing you know my friend better than I do.

If you were truly there, you'd be supporting their equal rights.

Mhmm. That's what you believe.

Or better yet, give them the link to poly and let them read your vile hatred themselves and let them determine just how there you are for them.

He knows me better than you do, he knows me when I stuck up for him plenty of times and was there for him when plenty of his "friends" were not. It's a lonely life, rah. I have made my position clear and he knows where I stand and why. He's known me from before I was a Christian, and we've had this conversation many times from both sides of the aisle.

In short while you were busy marching and telling him how he should feel, I was there for him and actually listening to him. You're like many people he knows who have treated him the same way. Telling him what he should or should not believe. It opens your eyes pretty quick.

I've had black friends that are the same way. And they have seen me on Poly. Maria sees you as the little dude in the corner that got picked on all your life that enjoys the popularity of being associated with a 'movement'.

She thinks you are a very sad person, rah, and that you're obviously not happy about your life but that you get pleasure out of attacking those who actually stand for what you believed. That bothers you more than anything, people who you think you're better than actually sticking to what you discarded and doing well in their life.

At least that's her assessment of you.

You don't speak for people, rah. You speak for yourself. Speaking for other people about their issues is the fastest way to get them to shun you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Maybe he thinks he can only get one wife and other people might marry up all the women.

Uh, I believe in Christian marriage per Ephesians 5. Read it and you'll understand my beliefs.