Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Proteus_MST]

There isn't a single European country with a TFR of greater than replacement. Some, are fairly close - all the countries in Europe are in net, longterm population decline.

Globally speaking I don't think that a TFR of < 2.0 would be a good thing ...
in order to let world population shrink to around 5 billion /which IMHO would be a good number to stabilize world population around)

At least in Massachusetts after homosexual marriage, successful adoption placements have actually declined.

In most US countries the adoption rate has been shrinking over the past decade ... including your beloved Texas.
You will be hard pressed to find any link between this and homosexual marriages .. Massachussetts just follows this trend
(and may have even lower adoption rates without homosexuals being able to adopt children)

[Ben Kenobi]

You sir, are an idiot.

Just because you disagree doesn't make me an idiot. Long term - that is the greatest benefit to the state of marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

Globally speaking I don't think that a TFR of < 2.0 would be a good thing ...

There isn't a country in Europe that is even at 2. Most of the countries of the world are below 2 already. Given the demographic transition - we're more likely to face under population than overpopulation.

The problem with the TFR of under 2, is that you end up with a tax base that is primarily older, retired people with a worker/retiree ratio of under 2. This is what is scaring the piss out of Merkel.

[Ben Kenobi]

The bigot has to come up with some reason to justify himself. All of his other arguments have failed miserably so he has to keep coming up with new ones in an attempt to hide his real reasons for being against them. The good news is that the people here see through his lame justifications and see him for what he is... a bigot.

When are you leaving the Catholic church since you believe opposing homosexual marriage is bigotry?

A smart businessman will try to increase their market share in their core market to make up for a declining market, and aggressively go after the new and increasing market.

When the numbers are 96.5 and 3.5 I think a smart businessman realizes that he shouldn't be devoting more than 5 percent on the 'new' business, and that the core business is being neglected.

[Ben Kenobi]

They are when other tax payers have to make up the difference

You'd better turn in your libertarian card if you believe that tax cuts have to 'be made up'. Since when did you become a democrat?

As for TFR, 2.4 means that the average woman in the world will have 2.4 children. One for her, one for her husband and .4 to make up for all the children who die before having children. This would double in about 50 years.

However, there's a caveat. Given the distribution of the TFRs are in generally high death rate areas - we are very close to having an already balanced population. The only growth long term will be in the demographic transition, as the death rate declines and the population everywhere ages out.

[Ben Kenobi]

That isn't the FAULT of same sex couples. You don't follow the law you will get shuttered.

Tell that to the kids that aren't getting placed. You broke it you bought it.

That's all I see here. That's all he can talk about. Breeding and populating a world with scarce resources as it is

I'm arguing facts. I know you don't *like* facts, but the truth is that even the UN - depending on the projection you use - projects that world population will start declining in 2050.

That's within the lifespan of many posters here, Gian.

[Giancarlo]

The secular agencies can more than make up for it and I already stated there are two million gay people in this nation that want kids. Who the hell are you to deny people their rights?

Facts. You wouldn't know if facts hit you square in your ****ing face. Population decline? Good. Damn good. People shouldn't be having five or six kids anymore. We don't work in farms or even factories anymore you vapid clueless idiot.

[Giancarlo]

Just because you disagree doesn't make me an idiot. Long term - that is the greatest benefit to the state of marriage.

You are an idiot because you don't have any logic. You are ****ing stupid. I don't even know in what other way I can state that. Same sex marriage is beneficial for the state you putz.

[Ben Kenobi]

The secular agencies can more than make up for it and I already stated there are two million gay people in this nation that want kids. Who the hell are you to deny people their rights?

Last I checked the first amendment protects Catholic religious exercise. Or are you saying that the 1st Amendment no longer exists? Tell it to the children that aren't being placed! Are they going to think that you care about them or that you care about yourself first and foremost.

Population decline? Good. Damn good. People shouldn't be having five or six kids anymore. We don't work in farms or even factories anymore you vapid clueless idiot.

You're stuck in the 40s and the 50s. If you look at the actual data - most countries are in long term decline, they are not replacing themselves. Some, like Germany and most of eastern Europe, save Slovakia, are declining even when taking immigration into account.

Same sex marriage is beneficial for the state you putz.

By your own argument, the decline in marriage rates have hurt, not helped the state.

[Proteus_MST]

There isn't a country in Europe that is even at 2. Most of the countries of the world are below 2 already. Given the demographic transition - we're more likely to face under population than overpopulation.

The problem with the TFR of under 2, is that you end up with a tax base that is primarily older, retired people with a worker/retiree ratio of under 2. This is what is scaring the piss out of Merkel.

the main problem rather is the peculiarities of annuity assurances here in germany.
The annuity assurance is called a Generationenvertrag ("generations treaty").
That means, those people in the age to be economically active pay for the generation that is living in retirement.

Something that can only work if the age pyramid actually resembles a pyramid.

But due to the rising life expectancy in the western world this isn't the case anymore ... people live longer and therefore also stay longer in retirement.
The low TFR in germany (and other western country) of course adds to this, making the "age pyramid" no longer resemble an actual pyramid.

And I agree that the main problem with the TFR (i.e. raising it above 2) are the african countries ... where annuity assurances often are a rarity and therefore the own children act as a form of annuity assurances (i.e. many children -> many hands that will care for you when you are getting old).

I guess when/if the living standard of african countries reaches that of western countries (and annuity assurances are standard there) the TFR will also sink in african countries
(but I know that a rising living standard in the 3rd world causes its own problems ... namely, that also their resource consumption and pollution will rise ... earths resource- and ecosystem isn't able to bear 7 billion people with the living standard of the industrialized western world)

[Ben Kenobi]

Western standards of living cannot be maintained in the face of a 2:1 worker/retiree ratio. Especially not with the job market as poor as it is in Europe with so many younger people not working. Thankfully, it looks like we'll escape the brunt of that, but it looks like Western living standards peaked about 15 years ago.

[Bereta_Eder]

France is the only western european country with a net positive on population growth (mad monk will crap out)

[Ben Kenobi]

France is the only western european country with a net positive on population growth (mad monk will crap out)

France is good, but they are only balanced. They are not growing longterm. Ireland is also doing pretty well with a TFR of 2.

[Bereta_Eder]

Actually there seems to be lots of european countries growing and France is just one of them. Cyprus is on top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_population_growth_rate

And most of them, btw, have gay marriages (not counting Turkey. Har. Why is it even in there)

[Ben Kenobi]

That includes immigration, which I'm not including.