Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

Big families had their appeal when 80+% of the population worked on farms lol. Or maybe in industrial factories which employed child labor.

[Ben Kenobi]

There are hundreds of thousands of kids left in the system up for adoption. All before same sex marriage was legalized. Many gay couples adopt children kicked to the streets by their parents or abandoned.

Again, the situation in Massachusetts is another negative consequence. You cannot argue benefit in adoption services when you're actually lowering the number of successful placements by forcing Catholic adoption agencies to shut down.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben likes the Duggars. Big fan of them I think.

Nothing to do with Catholics?

[Ben Kenobi]

And of course the state has a prima facie interest in teaching those kiddos to love the state, to pledge their allegiance to the state and its god. You want to subsidize having kiddos to benefit the state, sounds fascistic

Last I checked, tax breaks are not a subsidy.

In the past the clan or tribe needed cannon fodder to survive, the Bible reflected that reality. Thats the past, not the future... Our future is one of over population and wars over increasingly limited resources

You are aware that the worldwide TFR is around 2.4? We're not that far from being in a situation where the only growth of population worldwide is through a lowered death rate - people living longer.

Most countries are actually in a long-term population decline, not an increase.

I just wanna leave enough room for the critters, religions promoting population growth based on ancient dogmas are not helping

How do market economies work when you have a constant decline in demand?

[Ben Kenobi]

Children raised in an orphanage most likely have less chances to become successful in society, than children who are raised by loving parents
Also, children who are raised in state funded orphanages cost the state more money than children who are raised by parents (who may be subsidized through the tax cuts because of their marriage, but on the other hand buy everything for their child tehmself.

There isn't a single European country with a TFR of greater than replacement. Some, are fairly close - all the countries in Europe are in net, longterm population decline.

Adoption and being loving parents however is something that can be done by homosexual couples as well as heterosexual couples ... therefore, even if we concentrate on offspring, a homosexual marriage can be useful for the state ... not by producing children, but by adopting and raising children (and make them useful members of society)

At least in Massachusetts after homosexual marriage, successful adoption placements have actually declined.

[Ben Kenobi]

Only terrible to somebody with no business sense.
Always go after the growth side of the business.
Don't waste money and effort on things you can't change.

Agreed. However the 'growth' side of the business isn't large enough to flip the bottom line from red to black. That means something has to be done about the core business. You could try upselling the weddings, but again, that really depends on your business model.

[Giancarlo]

Dogmatic idiot. That's all I see here.

The situation in Massachusetts... ugh. And I really should have blocked this moron. What situation? Something he invented off the top of his head?

You stupid fool, adoption agencies are subject to the same rules and regulations by the state. Secular adoption agencies are more successful. We all know how the Catholic church handles children... not very well and not to be trusted.

[Giancarlo]

Now he's making **** up.

MORE FALSE CORRELATIONS AND FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

Adoptions did not decline in Massachusetts. This guy is a perpetual bull**** artist.

[Giancarlo]

TFR TFR T****ingBull****. That's all I see here. That's all he can talk about. Breeding and populating a world with scarce resources as it is. We don't even have enough safe drinking water for the people we already have and this moron can only think about women popping out more babies. He views women as baby making machines.

HEre are some real stats for little Ben:

http://www.lifelongadoptions.com/lgbt-adoption/lgbt-adoption-statistics

Researchers estimate the total number of children nationwide living with at least one gay parent ranges from 6 to 14 million.3
An estimated two million LGBT people are interested in adopting.4
Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.4
More than 16,000 same-sex couples are raising an estimated 22,000 adopted children in the United States.2
More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number in the United States.4
Same-sex parents in the United States are four times more likely than different-sex parents to be raising an adopted child. Among couples with children under the age of 18 in the home, 13% of same-sex parents have an adopted child, compared to just 3% of different-sex parents.2
The median age of same-sex adoptive parents is 42, as opposed to 44 for comparable opposite-sex parents.2

---

Yet we're the evil ones... to hell with you Ben!

You want to deny us the ability to raise children that would otherwise be neglected?

You are a failure at everything, Ben.

[Giancarlo]

Again, the situation in Massachusetts is another negative consequence. You cannot argue benefit in adoption services when you're actually lowering the number of successful placements by forcing Catholic adoption agencies to shut down.

STOP MAKING FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

STOP MAKING FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

STOP MAKING FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

STOP MAKING FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

That isn't the FAULT of same sex couples. You don't follow the law you will get shuttered.

[Berzerker]

Last I checked, tax breaks are not a subsidy.

They are when other tax payers have to make up the difference... Who do you think pays the taxes churches dont have to pay? All those sinners being criticized by the "preachers" taking their money. How ironic...

You are aware that the worldwide TFR is around 2.4? We're not that far from being in a situation where the only growth of population worldwide is through a lowered death rate - people living longer.

Most countries are actually in a long-term population decline, not an increase.

Your number doesn't mean anything to me, I dont know what it represents and TFR doesn't help. The population is growing and religions that promote more based on dogma dont care

How do market economies work when you have a constant decline in demand?

They meet the demand...less demand, less supply, and more room for critters

[-Jrabbit]

Arguing economic effects as a relevant factor in judging the social justice of same-sex marriage is about as irrelevant and disingenuous as it gets. It's like suggesting that slavery should be reinstated because it would be good for the economy. Absurd.

I'm still on the fence as to whether it's a troll.

[Ming]

Agreed. However the 'growth' side of the business isn't large enough to flip the bottom line from red to black. That means something has to be done about the core business. You could try upselling the weddings, but again, that really depends on your business model.

A successful/good business model is one that goes after the available market and recognizing the changes in the market.
The trend now is declining straight marriages and increasing gay marriage.
A smart businessman will try to increase their market share in their core market to make up for a declining market, and aggressively go after the new and increasing market.
That's just Business 101.

[Ming]

Arguing economic effects as a relevant factor in judging the social justice of same-sex marriage is about as irrelevant and disingenuous as it gets. It's like suggesting that slavery should be reinstated because it would be good for the economy. Absurd.

I'm still on the fence as to whether it's a troll.

The bigot has to come up with some reason to justify himself. All of his other arguments have failed miserably so he has to keep coming up with new ones in an attempt to hide his real reasons for being against them. The good news is that the people here see through his lame justifications and see him for what he is... a bigot.

[Dauphin]

The primary state accorded benefit of marriage is children.

You sir, are an idiot.