Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

So according to Ben, Prop 8 in California still exists LMAO.... What a joker.

[Ben Kenobi]

No. Kentucky law isn't the same.

Kentucky law still states, "one man and one woman", as it did prior to 2015.

It was basically gutted by the SCOTUS ruling. Read up on the law and civics please.

I have read the law in the state of Kentucky. It still states what it always has.

You are the one making bald assertions here. No hairline at all. No hair at all. No proof in other words. You are lying again. Not very Christian of you to be a compulsive liar.

I still await your definition of 'sexual orientation'.

[rah]

Most people would probably prefer to have the facts before calling someone a monster.

The fact you would reject your innocent daughter is the only fact I need. Your brother is just icing. Regardless of the circumstances.
Monster it is.

[Ben Kenobi]

The fact you would reject your innocent daughter is the only fact I need. Your brother is just icing. Regardless of the circumstances.
Monster it is.

Dannubis is bright enough to suspect there is more going on here.

[Giancarlo]

Kentucky law still states, "one man and one woman", as it did prior to 2015.



I have read the law in the state of Kentucky. It still states what it always has.



I still await your definition of 'sexual orientation'.

You haven't read anything. Those states laws were struck down by the US Supreme Court. Gutted like a fish. Kinda like your argument.

Sexual orientation is self defining. I don't need to provide any definition. Now deal with the fact it is innate.

[Giancarlo]

The fact you would reject your innocent daughter is the only fact I need. Your brother is just icing. Regardless of the circumstances.
Monster it is.

He isn't very Christian. He judges everyone and hates those who attracted to the same sex.

[rah]

Dannubis is bright enough to suspect there is more going on here.

I'm sure he is. I don't care. As I said, the daughter aspect sold it for me. I had forgotten about the other. Old and all that.

[rah]

He isn't very Christian. He judges everyone and hates those who attracted to the same sex.

And He's so proud of it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sexual orientation is self defining. I don't need to provide any definition. Now deal with the fact it is innate.

I find it curious that you're unable to define a critical component of your thesis. If you can't define it how do you know that it's immutable?

[Ben Kenobi]

He isn't very Christian. He judges everyone and hates those who attracted to the same sex.

*shrug*

Attraction is one thing. Acting on it, quite another.

[Kidlicious]

He isn't very Christian. He judges everyone and hates those who attracted to the same sex.

"Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged—What Jesus Meant
Thankfully, He told us what He meant so we don't have to guess.
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The best-known Bible verse used to be John 3:16. But our culture has a new favorite. In fact, it has become the trump card played to justify any and every lifestyle. It’s even a quote from Jesus.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. —Matthew 7:1
Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged—What Jesus Meant
(Photo by Photodune)

The phrase is often quoted as “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” While the meaning is the same, it’s interesting we have learned the wrong wording from the 1611 King James Version. It should be: “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” The verse often is taken to mean nobody has the right to judge anybody for anything at any time.

The problem? The verse has a context. Jesus told us what He meant.

When Jesus spoke these words on the slopes surrounding the Sea of Galilee, He wasn’t saying never to judge. He simply warned about doing it the wrong way—by telling us how to make judgments the right way.

And believe me, it ain’t easy.


Jesus Isn’t Confused

Later in the same book, Jesus commands we do confront a fellow Christian caught in a sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This awkward obligation is supported elsewhere in the Bible (Galatians 6:1).

So, what did Jesus mean, then, when He said, “Judge not lest ye be judged”? The verse that follows explains—and often it isn’t quoted. Jesus tells us exactly what He meant:

Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. — Matthew 7:1-2

Jesus wasn’t confused in His teaching. He didn’t mean we should never make a judgment about right and wrong. As He explained, He meant we shouldn’t make a judgement hypocritically. The verses that follow make this patently clear (Matthew 7:3-5).

Seeing someone else’s faults should be a cue for us to examine our own lives.WAYNE STILES
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Please Pass the Perfection

We know no one is perfect, but we expect it anyway. Except in ourselves. We often excuse our own shortcomings because we claim God’s grace. But then we turn around and demand others be perfect—a standard we ourselves don’t meet.

This is precisely what Jesus was warning against.

The grace we freely claim for ourselves we should also extend to others.WAYNE STILES
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The fact is, we never know all the facts.

How do we know the idiot driver didn’t just lose his spouse last week?
How do we know the rude saleswoman didn’t just discover she has cancer?
How do we know the Christian who cussed didn’t just accept Jesus and has no clue how to walk with God?
Wouldn’t it be better to tap the brakes on our judgment—especially when we don’t know all the facts? Before we call into question someone else’s walk with God, we should scrutinize our own.

NOTE: the Bible never gives us the responsibility of pointing out sins of the world as our priority. Unbelievers don’t need to hear lessons of morality as much as they need to hear the gospel. The judgment Jesus spoke of was primarily between believers, not unbelievers.
The world needs the gospel, not rules alone. Otherwise, they may confuse rules with the way of salvation.
Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged —What Jesus Meant

Yes, there is a point when we must confront the sin in another Christian’s life. Otherwise, we’re failing to obey the process Jesus and Paul explained in Matthew 18:15-17; Galatians 6:1; and 1 Corinthians 5:3-5.

However, that process should only occur after we’ve gone through a more basic examination with our own lives.

“Judge not lest ye be judged.” Jesus meant that our priority for life change should first be to ourselves—then to others"

https://www.waynestiles.com/judge-not-lest-ye-be-judged-what-jesus-meant/

[Giancarlo]

I find it curious that you're unable to define a critical component of your thesis. If you can't define it how do you know that it's immutable?

You can't make this up.

People don't even argue that anymore. You are arguing something that has long been debunked. Move on already.

It's 2016. Not 1986. Not 1956. Sexual orientation has already been proven scientifically to be innate.

[Giancarlo]

*shrug*

Attraction is one thing. Acting on it, quite another.

Oh so I am supposed to be alone my entire life because you don't "approve" of my relationship?

You're more ridiculous than I thought.

[Giancarlo]

"Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged—What Jesus Meant
Thankfully, He told us what He meant so we don't have to guess.
Comment

*bullsh*t snipped*

I don't really care what some website says about one of my most misinterpreted and plagiarized texts in modern history. And "jesus" didn't tell you anything. The bible did and the bible was written by men... the bible also says slavery and being stoned for eating shellfish is also acceptable.

[Ming]

If the law compels someone to act contrary to their conscience than the law contravenes the first amendment. She retains the right to decline to participate.
Sure. The courts can continue to undermine the Bill of Rights all they like. Not like there's going to be consequences for that. I imagine it will be a wakeup call when they realize that their authority is dependent upon the Bill of Rights.

It's still the law... they broke it... they paid for it. You can keep trying to be a legal scholar, but the court disagrees with your interpretation.
Your right to practice your religion is protected... discrimination is not protected.
If there is no justice then there is no law.

Funny that a Catholic would say that. Most Catholics would say that the teaching comes from God, but what do I know?

You seem to think you are the expert on what God wants... Well, other people have their opinions.

Where am I quoting the bible, Ming? I have not done so. Yet here you are, quoting the bible like any atheist here.

How many times have you posted " ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. " This is your standard response that gay marriages shouldn't be allowed.

Then it is not merely 'my opinion'.
Sure I agree with that. Anyone who is not Catholic is free to follow whatever their hearts desire. However, the rules are different for Catholics. You've made a promise before God to protect what God teaches.

I have no idea how you reconcile that promise you made to what you say here. Perhaps you can explain that one to me?

I simply do believe it's my role to cram my religion down other people's throats that don't want it.
Religious freedom, which I do believe in, means they are welcome to their own personal beliefs, just like I am.

Sure it does. I can rent my property out to whomever I want. I can sell it to whomever I want.

If it can be proved you are being discriminatory in who you rent to or sell to... you are in violation of the law.
Rental management companies have been prosecuted for discrimination. Banks have been prosecuted for discriminatory loan practices.
It's against the law to discriminate.

Family is important, but it is not the most important. I am not loving a gambling addict by taking them to a casino. Or an alcoholic by taking them to a bar.

Gee... so being gay translates to gambling addict or alcoholic to you... WOW!

If I loved them and I believed that what they were doing was wrong, would I go along with it or decline?

Nobody is saying to change your beliefs, but that doesn't mean you can't show them love, understanding, and support.

If they are my child, I have an obligation as a Catholic father to help them stay true to their faith. I will be judged by that.

And if their faith isn't being Catholic?

If they choose to marry then I probably will end up in hell too, for failing to do my duty for her. I am a teacher, I am responsible for my charges and where they end up. All of them.

So, your children won't be allowed to make any decisions for themselves... Nice... will you stone them to death if they don't respect you?

That still doesn't answer the question as to why you're fining a Catholic baker for practicing her faith.

I have answered that question... they are being fined for breaking the law... not practicing their religion. Nobody is telling them what they can believe, but they are still not allowed to be bigots and discriminate.

And as Dr. King said, an unjust law is worse than no law at all. For this very reason. We will not comply. You can fine us, toss us in jail. But we will not comply.

At least excepts the fact that you have to pay when you break the law. You seem to think you are above the law.

True, but nor does it make the current laws good.

But it is the law... so follow it or pay the price.

I've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christians are being persecuted. Now it is your turn to prove your claim.

I've already stated that they have been dragged by a chain behind a car... they were denied equal rights of marriage... they have been discriminated in the work place... But I guess in Benland, only Catholics have ever been persecuted. Do I need to provide evidence that Blacks were persecuted?

The rule was in place when it was enforced. The rule was not in place during the application.

Again... show your proof. All the proof provided in every story I saw shows it was in place as site policy.

Again, most people I have spoken to do not believe a 20 dollar cake is worth a 125k dollar fine. They do not believe that there was a substantial impediment, and they believe that the Christian baker was deliberately targeted for being open about their faith.

I'm sure all your bigoted Christian friends probably do believe that.
Most people I talk to have no problem with it...
Again, remember who it was the broke the law.

Really, this case is destroying much of the work done to change public opinion.

Only in the opinion of bigots.

Not yet, but that is coming.

Blah Blah Blah... let me know when it happens.

Gian has argued that religious freedoms should not be protected.

Take that up with him

Religious freedoms would protect Catholic institutions from laws that discriminate against them.

Only in your opinion. The law disagrees with you.

Again - the children are suffering because to the state of Massachusetts it is more important to override the conscience rights of Catholics than to place a child.

One more time... the fault lies with the Catholic church for not following the law. The church is the one causing the suffering here. The children mean nothing to the church, as can be seen by their willingness to cover up the raping of children by priests simply to save face.