"Kansas has found the ultimate way to punish the poor"

[Ben Kenobi]

If something is a serious problem, that doesn't mean that a government intervention involving mass incarceration is going to make things better

If someone is illegally distributing a substance that routinely causes death, and severe health problems, as well as addiction, etc - why shouldn't they be incarcerated? You've argued for dealers not to go to jail. They should. They should also have their property confiscated and sold to fund treatment centers. Do that to the house of every dealer and you'll put a quick message out.

No, the existence of obesity and drug abuse does not mean people's bodies are government property.

Then why are children being tested for obesity in government schools?

If someone stole from you to buy new shoes, that wouldn't mean expensive shoes should be illegal and the people who wear expensive shoes should go to prison

Legalization would require compensation of all victims of property theft associated with the drug trade. It's not right to say that what they did was not a crime and not have them compensate the victims. It's like arguing, as I'm sure you would, that rape isn't a crime and then letting rapists out of jail.

[Ben Kenobi]

Just provide some case law supporting your claim that the Constitution guarantees fetuses a right to life.

I've already provided evidence that you've already supported, that the Founders supported a ban on abortion, given the laws at the time.

[giblets]

I've already provided evidence that you've already supported, that the Founders supported a ban on abortion, given the laws at the time.

On late term abortions. Yes. Not that different form the status quo after Roe v Wade.

[Ben Kenobi]

On late term abortions. Yes. Not that different form the status quo after Roe v Wade.

Doe permitted abortions for 'health' reasons anytime.

"the rational soul is not what makes such movement possible; the capacity for movement is present in the fetus before the rational soul is infused. There is no reason the fetus could not move before the arrival of the rational soul; conversely, quickening might occur well after the rational soul's infusion."

My emphasis. Aquinas is aware of movement within the womb that might not be felt by the mother, etc, as a logical extension of quickening. Quite simply - that since the movement isn't bound by a particular age.

Even Aquinas really doesn't support your position, Gribbler.

[giblets]

If someone is illegally distributing a substance that routinely causes death, and severe health problems, as well as addiction, etc - why shouldn't they be incarcerated? You've argued for dealers not to go to jail. They should. They should also have their property confiscated and sold to fund treatment centers. Do that to the house of every dealer and you'll put a quick message out.



Then why are children being tested for obesity in government schools?



Legalization would require compensation of all victims of property theft associated with the drug trade. It's not right to say that what they did was not a crime and not have them compensate the victims. It's like arguing, as I'm sure you would, that rape isn't a crime and then letting rapists out of jail.

1. You just described tobacco- it causes death, serious health problems, addiction. Sending people to prison over it would still be stupid. The costs associated with tobacco can be covered with taxes.
2. A school monitoring the health of its students is not the same as the government telling you what you can and can't eat.
3. Stealing would still be illegal if drugs were legalized. Do theft victims normally get compensated? If someone robs you and uses the money to buy liquor and cigarettes and you never get compensated does that mean those things must be made illegal now?

[giblets]

Doe permitted abortions for 'health' reasons anytime.



My emphasis. Aquinas is aware of movement within the womb that might not be felt by the mother, etc, as a logical extension of quickening. Quite simply - that since the movement isn't bound by a particular age.

Even Aquinas really doesn't support your position, Gribbler.

What would a theologian from Italy have to do with American legal precedent?

[Ben Kenobi]

What would a theologian have to do with legal precedent?

Uh. pretty much everything, in this case. Oh, that's right. You're a modern progressivist. You guys don't study any legal jurisprudence prior to 1960.

[giblets]

The government of the United States isn't founded on the Christian religion

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.]

Sorry Ben

[Ben Kenobi]

The costs associated with tobacco can be covered with taxes.

Will the taxes compensate me for my losses from dope dealers and their clients?

2. A school monitoring the health of its students is not the same as the government telling you what you can and can't eat.

Uh, if they can do it to students, why not the rest of us?

3. Stealing would still be illegal if drugs were legalized. Do theft victims normally get compensated? If someone robs you and uses the money to buy liquor and cigarettes and you never get compensated does that mean those things must be made illegal now?

I look at the primary cause. Dealers and dope. Unless you're advocating compensation of all the families, who have had to deal with dope addiction, etc, I do not support legalization. Nope, sorry.

Lots of us have paid lots of money to help people get off dope. What do we get out of it? Nothing at all, except more dope and more garbage.

[Ben Kenobi]

The government of the United States isn't founded on the Christian religion

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and are endowed by their God certain inalienable rights, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

I would argue that yes, it was founded on Christian principles. And there's an extensive list of citations providing it.

Like I said, progressives don't study American jurisprudence prior to 1960.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doe permitted abortions for 'health' reasons anytime.

Notice how quiet Gribbler got here?

[giblets]

1. What losses? If it's theft, that should be covered by laws against theft shouldn't it?
2. The CDC does collect statistics on the obesity rate, so what?
3. Do families of alcoholics get compensation? Families of people who get lung cancer from smoking?

[giblets]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and are endowed by their God certain inalienable rights, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

I would argue that yes, it was founded on Christian principles. And there's an extensive list of citations providing it.

Like I said, progressives don't study American jurisprudence prior to 1960.

1. You replaced "creator" with "god", pretty sneaky.
2. You're arguing with the founding fathers who ratified a treaty

[giblets]

Notice how quiet Gribbler got here?

Killing in self defense is legal, sorry.

[Ben Kenobi]

1. What losses? If it's theft, that should be covered by laws against theft shouldn't it?

Theft, for one. Theft of things that my family never got paid back thanks to dope and their pushers.

Two, money paid to help folks get off dope and their pushers. Since, as you've stated taxes should go to compensate social problems resulting from drug use, that means all of us get compensation.

2. The CDC does collect statistics on the obesity rate, so what?

Funny how we've gone from, "people are not state property", to, "so what". Guess it's ok to subject people to daily weigh-ins too. People are state property, comrade.

3. Do families of alcoholics get compensation? Families of people who get lung cancer from smoking?

Yes, and yes, actually. How many lawsuits have been filed over second-hand smoke?