Christian business owners . . .

[Ben Kenobi]

It's a spirit and it's holy numb nuts. I thought even you would get that one.

Wow, stunning insight.

I ask, where do you disagree with the Trinity? I'm just not seeing it.

[C0ckney]

I doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know... but in America, "Christian" = "good".

If something or someone isn't "Christian", then it is "bad".

This attitude is so pervasive in American culture that even people who disagree with the sentiment still find themselves acting as if it is true.

i can imagine that mormons suffered from discrimination in the past because of their religious views, but is this still an issue in 2015?

[Kidlicious]

because it's essential to the christian concept of god and his nature.

Why is it essential to the Christian concept of God (and nature?)?

No helping.

[Kidlicious]

Wow, stunning insight.

I ask, where do you disagree with the Trinity? I'm just not seeing it.

I already told you. The Holy Spirit is not an intolerant lying ******* who lords over people.

[C0ckney]

you actually want me to explain to you why the trinity is important for understanding the christian god?

[Lorizael]

Why are people so confused by the idea that Christianity can be defined in multiple ways depending on the context (theologically, sociologically, historically, etc.)? Christians are not triangles.

[Kidlicious]

you actually want me to explain to you why the trinity is important for understanding the christian god?

That's what I said.

[Ben Kenobi]

You really are a moron.

You asserted that the Church has changed her doctrine. I ask for some examples. That you can't find any doesn't make me stupid.

It's not about what I know, it's about what can be proven. Heresay is not proof. It was never LDS Church doctrine.

A direct citation from Brigham Young doesn't constitute proof in Mormonism? Wow. On what grounds do you use the Book of Mormon?

The Book of Mormon is about a group of Jews who travelled tot he Americas in the BCs, and Christ appearing in the Americas and founding a Church there. It has exactly jack squat to do with Adam-God.

And nothing to do with a set of golden plates that Joseph Smith claimed he found in America? That, when pressed as to their origin refused to show them; a set of plates that, and I repeat myself here, nobody save Joseph Smith has seen?

You'll have to pardon my skepticism here.

All heresay.

You say heresay and yet condemn heresy. Odd that? Heresay, or heresy? You decide.

There were other important members of the LDS Church at the same time who disagreed with Brigham Young, and the LDS Church doctrine followed after them rather than Brigham Young.

I'd argue that if your case is based on disagreeing with Brigham Young - that your case has little merit regarding Mormonism. You condemn Brigham Young when inconvenient, and uphold him when convenient.

You're just using circular logic. You take a grouping of people, claim they are Christians, and use their beliefs as proof for what Christians believe.

So you're asserting that your definition, since you are not a Christian is more accurate?

You quoted what I said, and affirmed it was exactly right.

Uh, ok. Except that there's this little thing called the sacrament of ordination, which last I checked Joseph Smith never received.

a) he's not my anything.
b) if you accept what Joseph Smith said, there's no reason to not accept what he said. However there's a very good reason to not accept what he didn't say as something he did say, or simply what other people claimed he said without having any evidence.

Then why accept the Book of Mormon and the Golden Plates?

Which is of course par for the course with religion in general. The evidence to support there being golden plates is similar to the evidence that Jesus was resurrected. That is to say, only heresay.

So why are you arguing that you're a Christian if you reject the Resurrection? You're not making a good case for it.

[Sava]

i can imagine that mormons suffered from discrimination in the past because of their religious views, but is this still an issue in 2015?

it was in 2012 in the republican primary

evangelicals thought Romney was not a real christian

http://m.christianpost.com/news/fla-evangelicals-mormons-not-christian-but-romney-is-ok-68332/

53% of white evangelicals polled said Mormons aren't Christian:

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/11/23/romneys-mormon-faith-likely-a-factor-in-primaries-not-in-a-general-election/

[C0ckney]

Why are people so confused by the idea that Christianity can be defined in multiple ways depending on the context (theologically, sociologically, historically, etc.)? Christians are not triangles.

they're more like trapezoids.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't see why Cockney needs my help, he's dismantling you just fine Kid.

I already told you. The Holy Spirit is not an intolerant lying ******* who lords over people.

Okay. Still not seeing where you disagree...

[C0ckney]

it was in 2012 in the republican primary

evangelicals thought Romney was not a real christian

http://m.christianpost.com/news/fla-evangelicals-mormons-not-christian-but-romney-is-ok-68332/

53% of white evangelicals polled said Mormons aren't Christian:
http://www.pewforum.org/2011/11/23/r...eral-election/

well it didn't stop him from winning the nomination...but i see your point.

[Sava]

well it didn't stop him from winning the nomination...but i see your point.

yeah Republicans are fine with people who are different as long as you pretend not to be different and never discuss how you are different or attempt to feel any sort of pride in what makes you different...

also, it helps if you are willing to believe in policies that are harmful to your group

that's how they have the occasional uncle tom and woman

[Aeson]

more:

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171

“...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthood—without the power of God—without the Church and Kingdom of God.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44



From the sound of these quotes, I don't think the founders of LDS would agree with you, Aeson.

http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/christianity.htm

Seems like this is pretty much a slam dunk.




"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.

- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

You very clearly don't understand anything about the LDS Church doctrine. This is literally the first thing that you will hear from the missionaries or as a 5 yo in Sunday school. Joseph Smith claimed that after being troubled about the teachings of contemporary churches, the Godhead (God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit) appeared to him, told him that the true Christian church that Jesus Christ had founded had been lost, and that he was the one chosen to reconstitute it.

Now, you don't have to believe the story. I sure don't. But Mormons demonstrably do. To pretend that Mormons don't consider themselves Christian, or that they believe there is something wrong with being Christian, is beyond stupid. They just disagree about what really makes a good Christian. Basically, they are you and BK and Imran just arguing their fairy tale is superior to your fairy tale and so they're the ones with the best claim to "Christian".

But it is hilarious to watch you claim that such reasoning makes a person not a Christian

[Sava]

To pretend that Mormons don't consider themselves Christian, or that there is something wrong with being Christian, is beyond stupid.

Is that what you think this discussion is about?

you and BK and Imran just arguing their fairy tale is superior to your fairy tale and so they're the ones with the best claim to "Christian".

I don't think you are doing a good job of following the discussion.