Christian business owners . . .

[Kidlicious]

"some"? that's an odd way of saying "almost all". which groups claim to be christians while rejecting the trinity: unitarians, mormons, jehovah's witnesses, christadelphians, a smattering of pentecostalists, maybe a few other small groups? their beliefs are completely outside mainstream christianity.

A lot of Christians have beliefs that aren't mainstream. This isn't 400 AC. Normal Christians, like Methodists, and most people in other denominations don't condemn you for that. Only jackasses do that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"some"? that's an odd way of saying "almost all". which groups claim to be christians while rejecting the trinity: unitarians, mormons, jehovah's witnesses, christadelphians, a smattering of pentecostalists, maybe a few other small groups? their beliefs are completely outside mainstream christianity.

Indeed. I think an important part of Christian belief is that Christ takes away the sin of the world (through His sacrifice and resurrection) - how does He do that if He is not God?

[C0ckney]

A lot of Christians have beliefs that aren't mainstream. This isn't 400 AC. Normal Christians, like Methodists, and most people in other denominations don't condemn you for that. Only jackasses do that.

i think you'll find that methodists believe in the trinity.

[Kidlicious]

i think you'll find that methodists believe in the trinity.

The UMC is non-creedal.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Ben Kenobi]

How did people know who was a Christian before the creeds existed?

Good question. The answer is to look at the Apostles. Prior to the formulation of the Creeds, those who were baptized were considered to be Christians.

[Ben Kenobi]

The UMC is non-creedal.

This is false. John Wesley was perfectly happy to include the Athanasian Creed in his original prayer book.

[Kidlicious]

Good question. The answer is to look at the Apostles. Prior to the formulation of the Creeds, those who were baptized were considered to be Christians.

No. Everyone who said they were a Christian was a Christian until your kind started telling people that they weren't. The rest is history.

[Ben Kenobi]

That means that Imran, you, and BK are condemning not only me and Aeson, but Slowwhand and every other Christian

Not so. We're merely stating that Christians believe that God is eternal and that God is uncreated. Both statements which John Wesley affirms.

If you choose to reject these statements, and the Trinity, why would you expect a belief in God who isn't really God would count?

Elok is Eastern Orthodox which doesn't officially accept the creed either. Any Baptists are also condemned.

I've been Mennonite and I will affirm that we teach that the Athanasian creed is correct.

You're on your own here, Kidicious. Everyone, Wesley, The Orthodox, the Baptist and Mennonites believe that God is both uncreated and eternal.

[Kidlicious]

This is false. John Wesley was perfectly happy to include the Athanasian Creed in his original prayer book.

People change their mind about things. Wesley did not want to start a new church, even though he obviously saw problems with the Anglican Church. But he did not believe in the creed which you refer to, and he did not believe that you needed to believe in creeds to be saved.

[Ben Kenobi]

No. Everyone who said they were a Christian was a Christian until your kind started telling people that they weren't. The rest is history.

My kind? Are you affirming that Catholicism is the Church of Christ?

[Ben Kenobi]

People change their mind about things. Wesley did not want to start a new church, even though he obviously saw problems with the Anglican Church. But he did not believe in the creed which you refer to, and he did not believe that you needed to believe in creeds to be saved.

If he did not believe in the creed, why did he take the time to include it?

John Wesley believed that God was eternal and uncreated. If you have any evidence that he rejected these Christian beliefs, I suggest you find some.

[Ben Kenobi]

That is your church's creed.

Yet, the Anglicans, Reformed, and Lutheran churches all have chosen to use it. Why? Because they believe it teaches the truth about the nature of God, fundamental Christian beliefs.

Learn how to talk to people who aren't catholic.

I am, it's commonly used pretty much everywhere, Kid.

[Kidlicious]

Not so. We're merely stating that Christians believe that God is eternal and that God is uncreated. Both statements which John Wesley affirms.

If you choose to reject these statements, and the Trinity, why would you expect a belief in God who isn't really God would count?



I've been Mennonite and I will affirm that we teach that the Athanasian creed is correct.

You're on your own here, Kidicious. Everyone, Wesley, The Orthodox, the Baptist s and Mennonites believe that God is both uncreated and eternal.

I didn't say God was created you liar.

That creed says that everyone who doesn't believe in the Trinity isn't a Christian, and isn't saved. You believe in that creed, that's what you believe. So which is it?

[Kidlicious]

My kind? Are you affirming that Catholicism is the Church of Christ?

I'm talking about intolerant, power hungry bigots!

[Ben Kenobi]

Because my statement was explicitly about the dictionary definition of the term.

You miss the point. Your entire argument hinges on one premiss.

1. the dictionary is an authoritative source to define Christian teachings.

I reject this premiss. I am arguing that in order to define Christian teachings, that one would go to the source of Christian teachings, the Church.

How ****ing stupid are you?

You don't even understand your own argument sufficiently to understand the logical premisses you are using.