Christian business owners . . .

[Aeson]

Correcting errors is part of the process.

Well maybe someday you and BK can convince them to change the definitions. In any case I'm right. Have fun hating on those who believe in Christ for not being as Christian as you and BK. It's truly hilarious to watch such hypocrisy in action.

[Kidlicious]

Correcting errors is part of the process.

A process for people who have jobs and aren't enemies of our language and culture.

[Kidlicious]

Did Jesus Christ write a dictionary? Is Webster a prophet?



Not at all. I'm using a definition used by Christians to define the beliefs that constitute a Christian.



This is false, as I've shown. Both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught it.

Did Jesus misuse language?

[Ben Kenobi]

Well I was referring to having a different interpretation of the Spirit. If you believe that Christ is God, or has the power and willingness to save and you devote yourself to his teachings then why wouldn't you be a Christian?

If you don't understand who God is, how can you say that the statement, 'Christ is God' has meaning? This is why the Trinity is so important, and this isn't a fringe interpretation. The Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed, every major protestant denomination included the Athanasian Creed in their creedal documents.

[Ben Kenobi]

Again not applicable.

Yes, it's very applicable. You're assuming that a dictionary should define what constitutes a Christian. This presupposition has serious flaws.

The Athanasian Creed dates to the 4th century. Webster is 1400 years after. Ergo, one would argue that the Athanasian Creed is a superior standard.

My statement was simply that Mormons are by dictionary definition Christian.

And why should the dictionary be considered authoritative on this matter?

I'm glad you can admit you aren't using the dictionary definition to refute my claim that Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition.

Why would I use a modern, inaccurate definition over an ancient creed?

There is no record that Joseph Smith taught it.

I just cited evidence that Joseph Smith taught it.

Brigham Young claimed Joseph Smith talked about the idea after Joseph Smith was dead

Ohoh. So now we're arguing that Brigham Young isn't really Mormon to salvage your theory. Brigham Young isn't the only witness who claims Joseph Smith said these things. If you have to exclude Brigham Young to salvage your theory, I would argue that by definition, he is considered to be a Mormon.

At no time was it official LDS Church doctrine.

Then why would Brigham Young feel the need to misrepresent Joseph Smith as well as cobble up the forgery that is the Book of Mormon?

You can't discard Brigham Young and salvage Mormonism.

You BK, are perhaps the single worst Christian I've ever personally met. (I'm sure there must be at least a few worse Christians out there, I've just been lucky not to meet any of them. Not even on the internet.) Using previously quoted definitions 4, 5, 6, and 8.

I'm sure, because I insist that the Creeds are correct and that we can actually know an actual Christian by those who affirm the Creed. Again, it's not me you're arguing against.

[Imran Siddiqui]

FWIW, this sort of discussion has the completely unwanted effect of my agreeing (in general) with Ben Kenobi and Sava. I consider Christians to be Trinitarians, as defined by the creed developed in the Council of Nicea. At best, I'd consider non-Trinitarians as Heretical Christians - though it's kind of like considering Jews for Jesus to still be Jews.

[Ben Kenobi]

Did Jesus misuse language?

Are you arguing that the Athanasian Creed is a misrepresentation?

[Kidlicious]

Are you arguing that the Athanasian Creed is a misrepresentation?

That is your church's creed. You are welcome to use whatever language you choose in regard to your church. But the rest of us are not catholic. Learn how to talk to people who aren't catholic.

[Kidlicious]

If you don't understand who God is, how can you say that the statement, 'Christ is God' has meaning? This is why the Trinity is so important, and this isn't a fringe interpretation. The Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed, every major protestant denomination included the Athanasian Creed in their creedal documents.

You don't have to believe that Christ is God. Christ said that He and the Father are one, because He does as the Father does. All you have to believe is that He is the Way.

[Kidlicious]

FWIW, this sort of discussion has the completely unwanted effect of my agreeing (in general) with Ben Kenobi and Sava. I consider Christians to be Trinitarians, as defined by the creed developed in the Council of Nicea. At best, I'd consider non-Trinitarians as Heretical Christians - though it's kind of like considering Jews for Jesus to still be Jews.

If you're talking about people who aren't members of the clergy of your own denomination then you're an idiot.

[Aeson]

And why should the dictionary be considered authoritative on this matter?

Because my statement was explicitly about the dictionary definition of the term. Here it is again:

"Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition of the term."

To determine what is "Christian" by the dictionary definition of the term you have to use the dictionary definition of the term. How ****ing stupid are you?

[Aeson]

FWIW, this sort of discussion has the completely unwanted effect of my agreeing (in general) with Ben Kenobi and Sava. I consider Christians to be Trinitarians, as defined by the creed developed in the Council of Nicea. At best, I'd consider non-Trinitarians as Heretical Christians - though it's kind of like considering Jews for Jesus to still be Jews.

Everyone has their own personal definition. It speaks to what kind of person you are. It's funny how far Christians in general go to do the exact opposite of what Christ taught.

[-Jrabbit]

Because my statement was explicitly about the dictionary definition of the term. Here it is again:

"Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition of the term."

To determine what is "Christian" by the dictionary definition of the term you have to use the dictionary definition of the term.

Maybe now they'll at least start arguing about how wrong the dictionary definition is.

[Aeson]

I just cited evidence that Joseph Smith taught it.

And I explained to you that it is heresay at best.

Ohoh. So now we're arguing that Brigham Young isn't really Mormon to salvage your theory. Brigham Young isn't the only witness who claims Joseph Smith said these things. If you have to exclude Brigham Young to salvage your theory, I would argue that by definition, he is considered to be a Mormon.

Then why would Brigham Young feel the need to misrepresent Joseph Smith as well as cobble up the forgery that is the Book of Mormon?

You can't discard Brigham Young and salvage Mormonism.

You don't understand how the LDS Church doctrine works. Just because someone in the Church (even a leader) says something doesn't mean it's automatically LDS Church doctrine. It certainly doesn't mean it's eternally doctrine.

Using your logic, everything anyone in any capacity in the Catholic Church has ever said is official and eternal doctrine of the Catholic Church. Which is of course absurdly stupid.

[Aeson]

Maybe now they'll at least start arguing about how wrong the dictionary definition is.

Well to Sava's credit, he did so.

BK of course doesn't get along well with reality or actual meaning of words.