what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

It doesn't matter because international Fina cial markets are closed to you. Everything has to be financed either by cash on hand or a current account surplus. Unfortunately, your main export earners are oil and gas both of which as way down in price.

These are problems usually only found in corrupt little 3rd world petro states; this is what Putin is reducing you guys too. On top of that he has gone and got you guys stuck in yet another foreign war. It is going to become a proxy war and Russia won't be able to leave without the dictator Assad falling because 80% of the population of that country wants him dead. Enjoy the slow steady drip of casualties from conscripts which Putin will send there just like he sent them to Ukraine.

That's not necessairily true.
Russia will probably put its full weight on Syria and it will win.
For many reasons.
The only worissome thing is what oerdin said about 80% of syrians not wanting assad, but fortunately, it's oerdin, so.

Don't even start to compare american and russian debt it's not even funny

[Proteus_MST]

Here is the full report regarding MH-17 btw:

http://cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl/documents/report-mh17-crash-en.pdf

And a vid regarding the simulation of the warheads explosion:

http://nos.nl/video/2062833-animatie-neerhalen-mh17.html

[Dinner]

That's not necessairily true.
Russia will probably put its full weight on Syria and it will win.
For many reasons.
The only worissome thing is what oerdin said about 80% of syrians not wanting assad, but fortunately, it's oerdin, so.

Don't even start to compare american and russian debt it's not even funny

They can help the butcher Assad retake some territory but, no, there will be no reconquest. Assad only remains as long as Russian forces prop him up and the proxy war can make sure Russia bleeds and keeps bleeding until they give up and go home like in Aghanistan. Then Assad will fall and Russia will lose their base because everyone will hatell them for propping up the vile dictator.

The only question is does Obama have the balls to do what needs done? He needs to block any peace process Russia proposes or which keeps the butcher Assad in power. He needs to flood the opposition with weapons and ammo including manpads and artillery then they just let the violent nature of Arabs do the rest.

[Ellestar]

Only one picture in a Dutch Safety Board explains what exactly hit a left wing and left engine of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
I don't even need a safety board to discern it LOL
http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/ Appendix Y, picture A.7
They explain how other trajectories match their secret computer simulation better I mean, seriously? If your "simulation" doesn't account for a left wing and left engine damage, or a damage to bulkheads, who cares if your holes in cockpit match a little bit better with one angle or another, if entire premise is wrong?

And that's an Almaz-Antey version of a missile trajectory in the picture, fired from Zaroshchenskoe.

No butterfly-shaped holes in cockpit either, so that rules out a newer 9N314M1 warhead that Dutch Board has in their report.
Nothing like this:

[Dinner]

Stop lying.

[Proteus_MST]

Denial seems to be an integral part of the russian mentality ...
when Stalin sent people to Gulags, most russians (including those who were sent to the Gulags) also wouldn´t believe that it was Daddy Stalin who gave the orders.
Instead they preferred to believe that it was a conspiracy of officers/party leaders within the russian government ... and that Stalin, if he knew about it, would immediately take actions to stop it

[Ellestar]

^^ See? Brainwashed western citizens deny facts in front of their eyes and say that it's the others are in denial, without any proof, of course

So, you can't argue with the fact that only Almaz-Antey version explains hits on left wing and left engine?

[onodera]

Мне достаточно знать, что запад ей дал бляшку не за "у войны не женское лицо", а за что-то, за что он дал такую же бляшку горбатому.
А, если Дима Быков поет по этому поводу диферабы, то тут и говорить не о чем.

У тебя действительно голова из бронзы, а внутри пусто, как на фотографии.

[Proteus_MST]

^^ See? Brainwashed western citizens deny facts in front of their eyes and say that it's the others are in denial, without any proof, of course

So, you can't argue with the fact that only Almaz-Antey version explains hits on left wing and left engine?

Only a person who has reached a higher level of denial would deny that the perforation holes in your pics are butterfly shaped and fit to the shape that is mentioned in the report as belonging to the warhead of a 9N314M missile

[Ellestar]

Only a person who has reached a higher level of denial would deny that the perforation holes in your pics are butterfly shaped and fit to the shape that is mentioned in the report as belonging to the warhead of a 9N314M missile

That's not what i asked for, but fine...

Where exactly in the report you see a mention that 23,5% of the holes from a warhead pre-made parts are butterfly-shaped, like in the picture from a live test of a 9N314M1 warhead?

[Dinner]

^^ See? Brainwashed western citizens deny facts in front of their eyes and say that it's the others are in denial, without any proof, of course

So, you can't argue with the fact that only Almaz-Antey version explains hits on left wing and left engine?

Yeah, like the "facts" the Kremlin posted of faked photos hopped pictures of a jet?

Sorry, but the facts are in and it was a Russian SAM which killed all of those civilians. You guys are the brainwashed ones believing Putin's lies.

[Proteus_MST]

That's not what i asked for, but fine...

Where exactly in the report you see a mention that 23,5% of the holes from a warhead pre-made parts are butterfly-shaped, like in the picture from a live test of a 9N314M1 warhead?

So they are perforation tests ...
maybe you should write this then ... my knowledge of russian is very rudimentary
und ich denke mal dass Du genauso Probleme hättest wenn ich plötzlich anfangen würde, in meinen Postings deutsche Artikel zu posten, ohne jede zusätzliche Erklärung dazu ... aber so gemein bin ich nicht, selbst dann nicht wenn es um deutsche Sachen geht
insofar a little explaining text in english would be helpful ... especially if the text in links/pictures cannot simply be copy&pasted into google translate

Therefore I thought that it would be pics of MH-17.

As for MH-17 ... as the report says (page 90 ff) there were lots of fragments recovered that were identified as part of the warhead ... some in the bodies of the cockpit crew, some in the wreckage of the cockpit ... some of there fragments had the distinct bow tie shape.

Also, with regards to the shape of penetration holes:
There will surely be differences between a ground test and a real hit (with both, the warhead and the plane moving) where the wreckage afterwards is subject to the wind speeds of its own flight and to a 33.000 foot fall with subsequent impact on the ground.
There surely also will be differences between materials ... I am sure that metal sheets with a certain thickness will preserve the shape of impacting projectiles better, than more brittle materials (like glassfiber), where the impact doesn´t just punch a hole, but rather tears away a larger part of the hull.

[Bereta_Eder]

und ich denke mal dass Du genauso Probleme hättest wenn ich plötzlich anfangen würde, in meinen Postings deutsche Artikel zu posten, ohne jede zusätzliche Erklärung dazu ...

noone has dared utter the dark speech of mordor here....

[Ellestar]

So they are perforation tests ...
maybe you should write this then ... my knowledge of russian is very rudimentary

Therefore I thought that it would be pics of MH-17.

But i said "nothing like this". That was a picture from an Almaz-Antey test of a real warhead. Well, i guess i could have said better.

As for MH-17 ... as the report says (page 90 ff) there were lots of fragments recovered that were identified as part of the warhead ... some in the bodies of the cockpit crew, some in the wreckage of the cockpit ... some of there fragments had the distinct bow tie shape.

That's correct, but in the report they say a total number of each type of fragment in 9N314M warhead is something like 4000, 1825 and 1825. It's not one or two of them, it's a lot of them. Yet, no holes like that are seen in the available pictures. Even if only 800 to 1200 fragments hit the plane (as they said, according to simulation), that's 190 to 280 bow tie fragments.

Also, there was no expertise for a found fragments with a bow tie shape. Isn't it really easy? Size and material is easy to check. If it's one of the main proofs which type of missile was used, it makes sense to prioritize such test.

Also, with regards to the shape of penetration holes:
There will surely be differences between a ground test and a real hit (with both, the warhead and the plane moving) where the wreckage afterwards is subject to the wind speeds of its own flight and to a 33.000 foot fall with subsequent impact on the ground.
There surely also will be differences between materials ... I am sure that metal sheets with a certain thickness will preserve the shape of impacting projectiles better, than more brittle materials (like glassfiber), where the impact doesn´t just punch a hole, but rather tears away a larger part of the hull.

It's aluminium in both cases, aluminium in test and aluminium cockpit. Well, i guess aluminium is also somewhat different, but at least some holes should look similiar.

Shear damage looks different from a penetration damage - for example, look at the picture of a right side of a cockpit, it's completely different from a left side. Speed of the missile and a plane changes relative trajectory of fragments (it's accounted for in simulations by all parties involved, they specifically mentioned it), but it doesn't change the shape of fragments themselves.

[Dinner]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBaSfgNJnE&time_continue=97