The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Alexander's Horse]

not the first Celts to go down this path

[DinoDoc]

[Ben Kenobi]

i don't think i agree with you about working class tories. i don't think they're motivated by 'economic security and stability', but rather things that are far less tangible and at bottom, utterly false (and by this i mean false in the sense of them being vicariously enjoyed with no real input from the subject, not that the feelings themselves are not real): patriotism, the monarchy, and all the many and varied myths and lies out of which our national narrative is constructed; the idea that the conservatives somehow represent something larger than narrow class interest, and that they, even as members of the working class, can be part of it. however, unlike many of those with my political persuasion, i think these ideas are both real and powerful and need to be deconstructed rather than simply ridiculed.

Working class Tories want to get ahead in the world. It is in their interest to shaft Labor - the party of the wealthy champagne socialists. What has Labor ever done for the poor, except make more of them?

[Ben Kenobi]

UKIP doesn't like immigrants. If Scotland goes independent, it'll suddenly get a lot harder to control immigration into the rest of the UK.

It may come as a shock to you, but wouldn't that obviate their entire uh, name? Are you surprised that the UK IP party would stand up for the preservation of the UK? You do know that they are actually proud of it? Or were you just employing a cheap shot?

[Proteus_MST]

not the first Celts to go down this path

Always a pleasure to hear them

[Bereta_Eder]

A nice article I've read.


The referendum for Scotland’s independence will take place on Thursday and the “yes” seems to marginally lead in the polls.
Britain deprived independence from very many countries on the peak of the british empire and now it risks Scotland to gain its independence.
When I read for the first time about the crimes and the theft on the back of many peoples of the planet by Britain and the other colonial powers, I thought that one day would come when these crimes will be payed for.
This could very well sound Christian but it is difficult to accept that all the crimes the british commited will remain unpunished.
Nevertheless, many of the crimes by the colonials were done with the excuse of Christianizing the “natives”.
Missionaries in front and soldiers followed.
Because as Mahatma Ghandi had said: those who think religion has no connection with politics, don’t know what religion is. .
Of course, the colonialists’ only goal was the richness of those countries.
The enrichement of the colonial countries is due, mainly, to the merciless pogrom theft that they conducted to very many countries of the world.
At the same time, colonialists were responsible for much blood and pain.
A young british teacher once told me that she hadn’t realized for how many difficulties her country was responsible for before she started working in Cyprus. There, she understood.
Today, the hordes of the descendants of those who suffered under the british and other colonialists are swarming the former colonialist countries. Whithout violence.
And Scotland is voting for its independence.
Ghandi will be smiling, cunningly.

[Dinner]

It is like someone already posted that one.

[Dauphin]

A nice article I've read.


The referendum for Scotland’s independence will take place on Thursday and the “yes” seems to marginally lead in the polls.
Britain deprived independence from very many countries on the peak of the british empire and now it risks Scotland to gain its independence.
When I read for the first time about the crimes and the theft on the back of many peoples of the planet by Britain and the other colonial powers, I thought that one day would come when these crimes will be payed for.
This could very well sound Christian but it is difficult to accept that all the crimes the british commited will remain unpunished.
Nevertheless, many of the crimes by the colonials were done with the excuse of Christianizing the “natives”.
Missionaries in front and soldiers followed.
Because as Mahatma Ghandi had said: those who think religion has no connection with politics, don’t know what religion is. .
Of course, the colonialists’ only goal was the richness of those countries.
The enrichement of the colonial countries is due, mainly, to the merciless pogrom theft that they conducted to very many countries of the world.
At the same time, colonialists were responsible for much blood and pain.
A young british teacher once told me that she hadn’t realized for how many difficulties her country was responsible for before she started working in Cyprus. There, she understood.
Today, the hordes of the descendants of those who suffered under the british and other colonialists are swarming the former colonialist countries. Whithout violence.
And Scotland is voting for its independence.
Ghandi will be smiling, cunningly.

Wtf?

Disjointed as it is, are they confusing British with English colonialism? The Scots were a disproportionate force behind the former, so the point of the 'article' is befuddled.

[Dauphin]

A nice article I've read.


The referendum for Scotland’s independence will take place on Thursday and the “yes” seems to marginally lead in the polls.
Britain deprived independence from very many countries on the peak of the british empire and now it risks Scotland to gain its independence.
When I read for the first time about the crimes and the theft on the back of many peoples of the planet by Britain and the other colonial powers, I thought that one day would come when these crimes will be payed for.
This could very well sound Christian but it is difficult to accept that all the crimes the british commited will remain unpunished.
Nevertheless, many of the crimes by the colonials were done with the excuse of Christianizing the “natives”.
Missionaries in front and soldiers followed.
Because as Mahatma Ghandi had said: those who think religion has no connection with politics, don’t know what religion is. .
Of course, the colonialists’ only goal was the richness of those countries.
The enrichement of the colonial countries is due, mainly, to the merciless pogrom theft that they conducted to very many countries of the world.
At the same time, colonialists were responsible for much blood and pain.
A young british teacher once told me that she hadn’t realized for how many difficulties her country was responsible for before she started working in Cyprus. There, she understood.
Today, the hordes of the descendants of those who suffered under the british and other colonialists are swarming the former colonialist countries. Whithout violence.
And Scotland is voting for its independence.
Ghandi will be smiling, cunningly.

Wtf?

Disjointed as it is, are they confusing British with English colonialism? The Scots were a disproportionate force behind the former, so the point of the 'article' is befuddled.

[Main_Brain]

Lets talk about the more important Questions, like what would happen to James Bond?


Also Groundskeeper Willie:

[kentonio]

ken: the sort of party you'd like to see (correct me if i'm wrong) is a 'middle of road' economically, socially liberal, pro-european, but without one. that's all well and good, but then you could vote for any of the main parties and get that. a lot of people do blame blair for this state of affairs, but although he was a great lover of triangulation, this is rather unfair. by getting rid of the imaginary part of labour's socialism (always far larger than the real one - this died in 80s), if anything he at least showed the working class once and for all that labour has nothing to offer them, except more of the same. in any case the idea is a very old one. blair, and even more so cameron, remind me a lot of stanley baldwin, who dreamt of creating a 'centre party', which would have borne a striking resemblance to the lib/lab/con party we have today.

Socialism (in the way you're referring to) died down largely because those 'working class' people started merging into the middle classes with the demise of the manufacturing industries. How would you actually define a working class person these days? Are they working class if they self identify? If so a lot of management level office workers are working class. Do you have to work in a manual industry?

i don't think i agree with you about working class tories. i don't think they're motivated by 'economic security and stability', but rather things that are far less tangible and at bottom, utterly false (and by this i mean false in the sense of them being vicariously enjoyed with no real input from the subject, not that the feelings themselves are not real): patriotism, the monarchy, and all the many and varied myths and lies out of which our national narrative is constructed; the idea that the conservatives somehow represent something larger than narrow class interest, and that they, even as members of the working class, can be part of it. however, unlike many of those with my political persuasion, i think these ideas are both real and powerful and need to be deconstructed rather than simply ridiculed.

Why would economic security not be a huge concern to the working class? If anything it's a bigger concern to them that to anyone, as they have a far smaller blanket of security protecting them again job losses and the like. I hate this idea that working class people just care about the flag and the queen and aren't really interested/engaged in economic stuff. That kind of thinking has been the death of countless governments. All politics is local, you should never forget that.

Edit: apologies, I misread your post as saying those were the things the working class cared about rather than the narrative the Tories use. Sorry, been driving for over 7 hours today and I think it's melted my brain.

[Dr Strangelove]

So if the day after tomorrow the "Ayes" have it, what are the chances that Great Britain will welch on the deal or manipulate conditions such that in Scotland will flounder and fail before or shortly after it achieves full independence?

[Dauphin]

So if the day after tomorrow the "Ayes" have it, what are the chances that Great Britain will welch on the deal or manipulate conditions such that in Scotland will flounder and fail before or shortly after it achieves full independence?

None. Why should it?

The only possibilities in this vein will be "**** you" smiles when/if things go pear shaped of Scotland's own making and rUK has a valid reason to not help. For example a refusal to be part of a currency union.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Betfair pays out early on Scottish independence 'No' vote

Online bookie hands those who have backed loss for Alex Salmond on Thursday a 'multi-million' pound pay-out.

Betfair is so confident of a "No" vote in Thursday's Scottish independence referendum that it is already paying out to those who have staked money on it.

The online bookmaker says it is paying out a "six-figure sum".

Despite polls ahead of the vote continuing to be close, betting markets have been overwhelmingly in favour of the Better Together camp winning on Thursday.

Betfair said this morning that gambling patterns indicate a 79pc likelihood of a "No" vote.

Despite the odds on "Yes" shortening last week, they have lengthened significantly in the last few days.

Financial markets have appeared to mirror betting patterns in recent days, with both suggesting that the chances of a "Yes" vote are far slimmer than polls suggest.

Betfair still implying a 78% chance for a NO vote - one trade of £55,000 on Sunday: https://t.co/wEkCeW7XAT pic.twitter.com/dylccugaV9
— Betfair Press (@Betfair_Press) September 16, 2014

Betfair's pay-out applies to its sportsbook operation, not the online exchange in which punters bet against each other.

Odds on a "Yes" vote have drifted from 4 (or 3/1) at the end of last week to 4.5 (or 7/2) on the exchange.

This would mean a £100 bet would return £450 if Scotland votes for independence. Backing "No" would return £127.

“Political bettors have often favoured the exchange as their choice of betting platform and it has historically provided an accurate prediction of political outcomes," said Betfair's Naomi Totten.

"Paying out early on our Sportsbook is testament to the esteem in which we hold the illustrious track record of our Exchange.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/11098848/Betfair-pays-out-early-on-Scottish-independence-No-vote.html

[Dinner]

Things started to go **** as soon as they decided not to.prevent Irish independence. They should have done what Turkey did for 35 years with the Kurdish separatists. Both the U.K. and Ireland would be better off now if they had as the U.K. would have more resources while Ireland wouldn't have suffered 60 years of economic stagnation.