The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Dr Strangelove]

Freedom is tomorrow, today they are voting.

Can't they finish the vote within 2 hours of the polls closing?

[Dauphin]

If Putin were running it, the results would be in before the polls closed.

[ricketyclik]

Corruption is the product of lots of things. You may get more with one system over another, but it is not unique to a political top down state apparatus.

I agree. It's human nature. One of the bad parts. From what I've seen in corrupt countries, however, once the top is openly corrupt, the rest have no chance in that people at every level follow their lead. The worst I've witnessed is in the Philippines, there may be worse. Every system/country has to constantly fight against corruption, and one of the best ways is to decry it when you see it. Particularly when you vote.

[Dr Strangelove]

I think the biggest factor in corruption is poverty in general and specifically underpayment of public officials.

[ricketyclik]

I think the biggest factor in corruption is poverty in general and specifically underpayment of public officials.

That's certainly a big one.

[Dauphin]

It's about opportunity (e.g. No questions asked), pressure (e.g., poverty, intimidation and/or incentives) and rationalisation (e.g., everyone else is corrupt so why should I be straight).

[ricketyclik]

It's about opportunity (e.g. No questions asked), pressure (e.g., poverty, intimidation and/or incentives) and rationalisation (e.g., everyone else is corrupt so why should I be straight).

I think you've covered it

[C0ckney]

i think dauphin is right and you can have corruption with no state apparatus; a parent bribing a school to issue an exam certificate for their child who hadn't passed said exam, would be an example. however, i think that most examples of corruption involve a state agent, because corruption involves getting someone in authority to grant something outside of legitimate channels, or for someone in authority to ignore some wrongdoing (or the reverse, that is an official demanding money to perform some service, or to not create problems); those in authority generally being state agents.

[Dauphin]

If we ignore corporate corruptions.

[The Mad Monk]

Can corporations exist without a supporting state apparatus?

[ricketyclik]

Can corporations exist without a supporting state apparatus?

Seems like they'd do best without one (or many). (Replace {support} with {constrain}).

[Dauphin]

Not easily, but you can have corrupted corporates operating with a squeaky clean non-corrupt state apparatus.

[Bereta_Eder]

an ephemism for corruption is "extra institutional methods of social consent".
there are books written about it. defending it the poor fecks.
it still sucks balls though anyway you call it. the sure way to feck up society as a whole
90% it comes from an abuse of power imho

[Bereta_Eder]

of course corruption serves a purpose. a very distinctive one.
the greek brend is called "clientelle state".
political parties "promise" favors in exchange for votes.
i.e. your kid can't find a job?
don't worry, we'll hire him in the public sector.
he's a dead beat? don't worry we'll protect him.

just be sure to keep voting for us. because if we go, his protecction will go too.

clientelle state. and it goes on even stronger now with the crisis.
the funny thing is all they need in order to get rid of that is a couple of laws.
they never legislate them.
they keep their power. they keep their perks. for how long is the question.

and of course after all this corruption the sh!t hits the fan and public institutions start deteriorating badly, they have the solution ready: privitizations of anything that can be privatized.

feck them hard

[Pax]

I am against Scottish independence.