The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Dauphin]

So the nationalists can accuse rUK of holding their sovereignty hostage and acting like the oppressive monsters they insist we are?

They'll say that anyway for not sharing the pound. That's why they are holding hostages with the "we won't pay our debts" card.

[Dauphin]

An indefinite delay is not what I am arguing is acceptable. I am arguing that the date should not be set in stone until the key negotiation points are settled in principle. The date can even be brought forward if it is a totally splendid divorce.

[Proteus_MST]

An indefinite delay is not what I am arguing is acceptable. I am arguing that the date should not be set in stone until the key negotiation points are settled in principle. The date can even be brought forward if it is a totally splendid divorce.

I don´t think it will be ...
as usual there will be a struggle about who will get the kids, the dog and the silverware ...
and who has to take the mother-in-law

[pchang]

Time to build a new wall. Instead of Hadrian, call it Cameron's.

[Dr Strangelove]

According to the BBC the Ulster-ites are all choked up about this referrendum because emotionally they're deeply invested in their Scottish heritage and their British identity. The Grand Order of Ulster Lodge asked that Ulster scots be allowed to vote in the referrendum, they were of course tuned down. The Grand Lodge is planning a large rally in Edinburgh the weekend before the vote. What I'd like to know is what do the Scots think of the Ulster-ites? Are they seen as gigantic a-holes over there like they are over here? Will a march by a bunch of North Irish Protestant thugs help or hurt the "No" cause? My guess is that the Grand Order's rally may be the one thing needed to tip the vote in favor of independence, unless the Scots don't seem them as the low forehead thugs they really are.

[kentonio]

An indefinite delay is not what I am arguing is acceptable. I am arguing that the date should not be set in stone until the key negotiation points are settled in principle. The date can even be brought forward if it is a totally splendid divorce.

Considering none of the work has even been started, 18 months is completely laughable as a timescale. You may be right that the date shouldn't be set in stone, but then again lots of things shouldn't have been done in the way they have been. The momentum has built to such a point now where if the answer is yes, then seperation has to happen when it has been promised to happen. There would be absolute outrage at any significant delay.

[regexcellent]

I have a feeling they'll come running back after a while if the vote passes.

[N35t0r]

From the historical track record on 'large groups of people owning up to their mistakes', I wouldn't bet heavily on it.

[Sava]

You'd think being consistently wrong would change reg's worldview.

I think he keeps it going with denial and confirmation bias.

[kentonio]

From the historical track record on 'large groups of people owning up to their mistakes', I wouldn't bet heavily on it.

Indeed. See Slovakia for more details.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Why wouldn't they? Despite the austerity measures, people have mortgages and children and they want to know as accurately as possible how their economic futures are going to work out. This independence campaign is basically a blind leap of faith. Both sides are only giving the arguments that make their own position sound most palatable, and most of the big questions are genuinely unanswerable in advance given that no pre-negotiations were possible on most of the issues. It was inevitable that it would be so, given that until recently the yes campaign were running at about 35%, so the UK government had no incentive to negotiate in advance on most things. If they'd gone into this campaign with a large yes majority, then it would all have been different. The sudden rise in popularity has come from a well organized campaign designed to sweep people up in nationalistic fervour, not from any solid economic arguments.

Highly doubt it on my end, being smaller and more flexible they have a higher chance being next Ireland (without the housing fiasco, and still with some oil to boot) than next Ukraine.

In case of no war, a smaller more flexible government closer to home is always better than the distant entity where you are on the periphery being handed out "help" while they are actually being pillaged by the centre (oil) .

Also it is an illusion that England is "rich", London is rich, in principle City, insanely so (and it makes up 1/6th of UK's economy I believe) while England next to it is poor large fragments of it on Eastern European level (except Home counties and Aberdeen for what is worth). Getting out of that grip could be the best they will ever do, and with knowing English they can setup much better conditions for business to move across the border than England can ever do. Irish did it, no reason why Scots could not, they are even better positioned to do so.

[Ben Kenobi]

According to the BBC the Ulster-ites are all choked up about this referrendum because emotionally they're deeply invested in their Scottish heritage and their British identity. The Grand Order of Ulster Lodge asked that Ulster scots be allowed to vote in the referrendum, they were of course tuned down. The Grand Lodge is planning a large rally in Edinburgh the weekend before the vote. What I'd like to know is what do the Scots think of the Ulster-ites? Are they seen as gigantic a-holes over there like they are over here? Will a march by a bunch of North Irish Protestant thugs help or hurt the "No" cause? My guess is that the Grand Order's rally may be the one thing needed to tip the vote in favor of independence, unless the Scots don't seem them as the low forehead thugs they really are.

Ulster is doomed, unless they repartition to Counties Antrim and Down.

[Ben Kenobi]

Getting out of that grip could be the best they will ever do

I find it really doubtful they would benefit if they left. They have the same problem as Quebec did - they are no longer productive enough to sustain their own economy. Catalonia is the opposite, which is why Spain will never let them leave.

As for the US - there's nothing in the Constitution barring states from choosing to leave. Freely entered, freely they can leave.

Only a few states (Texas is one), would be viable as independent entities.

[regexcellent]

Yeah but who cares about the rest of England? London's the only part of the UK that matters

People have told me there's so much to see in the North of England but I figure if I want to see a post-industrial wasteland I'll drive downtown.

[Ben Kenobi]

People have told me there's so much to see in the North of England but I figure if I want to see a post-industrial wasteland I'll drive downtown.

Presumably they are speaking of Lakes country.

That de Balliol connection is curious. I may have to dig further. I've got about a 400 year gap.