Please don't take this too seriously.

[Lorizael]

No. Probably the only period that comes close was the last few years with my ex. We lived together, and we loved each other, and I was motivated and doing well in school. But even throughout that period, I never thought of myself as happy. And that's one of the things my therapist is having me work on--realizing that me constantly telling myself I'm depressed does not necessarily mean that I am depressed.

[MOBIUS]

Exactly.

I spent a while thinking I was depressed, but when I stopped and really thought about it I realised that I wasn't at all. Instead I was overindulging massive self-destructive tendencies. Something in me (subconscious?) just plain doesn't think I deserve to be happy and basically spends much of my day finding ways to deliberately sabotage stuff. Problem is - I'm just too stubborn to actually get depressed, too lucky and easily able to extricate myself from the worst of situations...

I think I'm addicted to some kind of last minute stress/adrenaline feeling of impending dread - it's like a drug to me to constantly be walking on the tightrope of some kind of self-destructive disaster!

Take now, life is so good right now I don't feel I deserve it - I can already feel myself finding ways to destroy it all...

Though I've found gardening helps...

[Lorizael]

A lot of that sounds very familiar. One of the thoughts I struggle with, though, is: if I constantly tell myself I'm depressed, and I feel bad because of that, then what's the ****ing difference? Aren't I still depressed? Isn't depression ultimately just a feeling?

Again, one of the ways my therapist has helped is by showing me that there is more to depression than just the feeling. When I'm really depressed, I can't get out of bed, I yell at my friends, I have no energy, I get no pleasure out of anything, etc. And I tell myself that I'm depressed. But that last one is only a single component, a single sign, of depression. Me doing that when I'm not really depressed represents, probably, some of the long-term damage of having been depressed for so long, but it's not depression by itself.

In fact, it can be thought of as my brain's (unsuccessful, unhealthy) attempt to ward off depression. Because depression has been so scarring and so painful for me, by brain is extremely sensitive to anything that feels like depression, and it ramps into overdrive whenever it detects a hint of negative feelings. It yells at me, saying, "Look! Lori! You're depressed again! Quick! Do something!" And that eventually morphs into my brain saying that I never really stopped being depressed, that I never truly change or grow, that no matter what I'll always fail and return to my old ways.

Sigh. I have a long road ahead of me. Because even though I may not be depressed all the time, my core belief that I can't change is, at least so far, unchanging.

[Bereta_Eder]

The reason I asked was because if there was such a time, you can always try to replicate it.
Recreate the circumstances and events that brought you to that place.
It's true that people change and so do their "wants" so even that is not absolut.

[Ben Kenobi]

Paiktis- that's not always possible and that can sometimes lead to even worse outcomes. Which reminds me of my therapist.

[Sava]

Well, I'm currently paying a professional to tell me I'm not a failure, so...

My last therapist ended up going apeshit and calling me Hitler. But this is after I pretended to have multiple personalities.

[Sava]

A lot of that sounds very familiar. One of the thoughts I struggle with, though, is: if I constantly tell myself I'm depressed, and I feel bad because of that, then what's the ****ing difference? Aren't I still depressed? Isn't depression ultimately just a feeling?

I don't know if thoughts have quite that power. I seriously question the "think happy be happy/think sad be sad" theories. My thoughts/self/will can't make my liver or kidney function more efficiently. Relaxing can lower your heart rate, but not by pure thought. Thoughts can't ward off my morning ****. Thoughts can't make my bladder not fill up.

So why is it that thoughts can seemingly control the release of the hormones and endorphins (or whatever) responsible for our emotional states?

The simple answer is... they probably can't. The answer is likely biochemical.

[Bereta_Eder]

These are called restrictive thought patterns.
It's something like your way of thinking (your mind) is taught to be prefixed on negative thinking. This colors your sentiments/feelings.
By changing or adapting restrictive thought patterns (the essence of therapy, one could say), feelings follow.
For example, a veritable restrictive thought pattern is "perfectionism". The fixation that if something isn't done "perfectly" isn't worth doing, or it is a complete failure.

Thoughts and way of thinking can change physical attributes. Cancer patients is been known to increase self healing abilities just by thinking positively (that can sometimes truely make a difference).
Knowing methods of not pissing yourself off can stop the release of toxins in your bloodstream etc.

Not saying that there aren't cases of native physiological biochemical imbalances. There are and they are many, in which case a for life medical administration is called for.
On the other hand "genetisizing" every aspect of human emotion is a bit unhelpful.

[Lorizael]

See, to me, the scenario looks more like this: Can the brain affect the brain? And I have a lot of trouble believing the answer to that question is anything other than yes. Look at it another way. Our body is constantly affecting itself. The most straightforward example is probably muscles. If muscles strain themselves, they can tear. But the ultimate cause of muscle strain is a command from the brain to act. We don't think our body into action, yet it is still the brain that causes the body to act. The brain has mechanisms to cause all parts of the body to act, from hormone release to nerve signals. The way the brain interacts with itself merely manifests as thoughts, because of this crazy thing we call consciousness.

[Aeson]

My last therapist ended up going apeshit and calling me Hitler. But this is after I pretended to have multiple personalities.

Was one of your pretend personalities a Nazi?

[Sava]

Was one of your pretend personalities a Nazi?

Not necessarily. I may have described, a little too vividly, my desire for an army of comfort women and the process by which they would be selected. Scouting/recruitment in high schools. Mandatory deep throat training...

that sort of thing

[Sava]

See, to me, the scenario looks more like this: Can the brain affect the brain? And I have a lot of trouble believing the answer to that question is anything other than yes.

Tibetan monks can do funky things with meditation. But that requires extreme discipline and lifelong practice and training.

Sure, the brain can affect the brain. But to what degree? I can stop my train of thought. Can I increase my white blood cell count by force of will?

Emotions are a complex process. Personal empowerment is also a double-edged sword. After all, if salvation is in your control, then failing to choose salvation is your fault. This kind of shaming is part of the problem, not the solution. That's why I think the discussion of "thoughts control feelings" is a complete non-starter.

For those who assert our brains can ultimately control everything... prove it. Show me a study where a person's force of will can affect bodily functions (any bodily function) in a meaningful way. Or instead, document yourself engaging in such an exercise.

I doubt most people could demonstrate a marked change in vital signs... let alone emotional state.

I've had quantitative EEG's done. Opening and closing your eyes has a profound effect on brain activity. Willpower/tryhard attitude? Not so much.

I'm data-driven. Show me the data.

[Lorizael]

I'm not saying that force of will can necessarily change anything. But force of will is not the only mechanism the brain uses to do stuff. The brain has many tools, and we're not conscious of most of them. That doesn't mean, however, that the ones we are conscious of don't have any power. My claim is this: thoughts are the conscious manifestation of a tool the brain uses to affect itself. Thoughts don't necessarily have any scope beyond the brain, but they don't need to; the brain has other tools for that.

[Felch]

See, to me, the scenario looks more like this: Can the brain affect the brain? And I have a lot of trouble believing the answer to that question is anything other than yes. Look at it another way. Our body is constantly affecting itself. The most straightforward example is probably muscles. If muscles strain themselves, they can tear. But the ultimate cause of muscle strain is a command from the brain to act. We don't think our body into action, yet it is still the brain that causes the body to act. The brain has mechanisms to cause all parts of the body to act, from hormone release to nerve signals. The way the brain interacts with itself merely manifests as thoughts, because of this crazy thing we call consciousness.

It works the other way around - there are mental health benefits of physical exercise.

I can personally attest to this. A couple months ago I went from barely working out and smoking several times a day to working out almost every day and smoking only about once a week. I feel a lot happier than I did before.

So get off of Poly, go outside, and walk for fifteen minutes a day. Ideally walk to some cheap gym, sign up for a membership, and start buffing your STR, DEX, and CON.

[Lorizael]

I'm pretty sure it was your brain that caused you to start working out.