Should the Republican Party Bow Out of 2016?

[Ben Kenobi]

Romney very nearly won the last election

Ahahaha. No.

I did election coverage from Texas for friends up north. My election summary of the evening was simple. I went in at 7pm and left before the hour knowing it was over. I spent most of that time eating enchiladas.

There were interesting and compelling races on election night. The presidency was not one of them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Republicans really do nominate some extremist like Ted Cruz

Cruz is ineligible! Waste of time.

[Captain ******* Kirk]

Romney and McCain were both solid candidates. Barack Obama, on the other hand, is an exceptional politician (which he proved by beating Hillary) and was all but guaranteed victory in the 2008 general election thanks to the financial crisis and the preceding two terms of GOP control of the White House. 2012 was a much more impressive victory; Obama had the power of incumbency but that was mostly balanced out by the drag of a weak economy. The fact that Obama achieved record turnout in that kind of environment is a testament to his political skill and that of his campaign team.

[Ben Kenobi]

It would not have taken much for Romney to win

Obama ran a terrible campaign in 2012. All Romney had to do was hold onto what McCain held. He failed to reach even that low point.

I called it back in January of 2012 that if Romney was the winner of the primary that he would lose to Obama. His poll numbers never even moved. Not in a year's time.

[Captain ******* Kirk]

Obama ran a terrible campaign in 2012.

Obama ran an amazing campaign in 2012.

[Ben Kenobi]

Romney and McCain were both solid candidates.

They were both terrible candidates. Look at the primary season in 2008, and 2012. When you have a solid nominee, they take the primary and it's not even close. Strong nominees don't lose 12 states. McCain was the primary winner with the fewest number of states won for the Republicans ever - making him weaker than even Bob Dole. Romney turned out to do even worse in the general than McCain.

Look at the 2012 run. Santorum (Iowa), Romney (New Hampshire), Gingrich (South Carolina).

Does that strike you as an imposing field?

[Ben Kenobi]

Obama ran an amazing campaign in 2012.

His turnout was crap. McCain would have beaten Obama2012. Romney lost because he managed to lose McCain voters who stayed home. His downballot negative coattails cost a senate seat in North frackin' Dakota.

There was talk that the GOP could retake the Senate, and they probably could have done so with any other nominee other than Romney.

[Captain ******* Kirk]

They were both terrible candidates. ...

Look at the 2012 run. Santorum (Iowa), Romney (New Hampshire), Gingrich (South Carolina).

Does that strike you as an imposing field?

It's not McCain or Romney's fault that a significant portion of the GOP base is both extreme and delusional enough to vote for people like Santorum and Bachmann. No good candidate is going to go far enough to the right to appeal to those crazies since it would make it impossible for them to get back to the center for the general.

His turnout was crap.

This is demonstrably false. I think you should educate yourself about this issue before you embarrass yourself further.

[Sava]

You have it the wrong way around. Clinton will easily win the Democratic nomination (since the Dems have no bench to challenge her) and will lose to the GOP in the general unless the Republicans really do nominate some extremist like Ted Cruz (which they won't because the GOP invariably chooses boring establishment types like Bush/Dole/McCain/Romney). It's extremely difficult for any party to hold the White House for three consecutive terms and the Dems sure as **** aren't going to do so after the rolling cluster**** that is Obama's second term.

okay

rurururur maD longreply ruarurur

[Ben Kenobi]

It's not McCain or Romney's fault that a significant portion of the GOP base is both extreme and delusional enough to vote for people like Santorum and Bachmann.

Yeah, and the fact that Romney labelled them extremists is why the GOP keeps losing elections.

This is demonstrably false. I think you should educate yourself about this issue before you embarrass yourself further.

North Carolina Obama 2012: 2,178,391
North Carolina Obama 2008: 2,142,651

Indiana Obama 2012: 1,152,887
Indiana Obama 2008: 1,374,039

Ohio Obama 2012: 2,827,709
Ohio Obama 2008: 2,940,044

Virginia Obama 2012: 1,959,532
Virginia Obama 2008: 1,971,820

Florida Obama 2012: 4,237,756
Florida Obama 2008: 4,282,367

Pennsylvania Obama 2012: 2,990,274
Pennsylvania Obama 2008: 3,276,363

Colorado Obama 2012: 1,323,101
Colorado Obama 2008: 1,288,633

Nevada Obama 2012: 533,736
Nevada Obama 2008: 531,373

Iowa 2012: 822,544
Iowa 2008: 828,940

Minnesota 2012: 1,546,167
Minnesota 2008: 1,573,354

Wisconsin 2012: 1,620,985
Wisconsin 2008: 1,677,211

Michigan 2012: 2,564,569
Michigan 2008: 2,872,579

Missouri 2012: 1,223,796
Missouri 2008: 1,411,911

Montana 2012: 201,839
Montana 2008: 232,159

New Hampshire 2012: 369,561
New Hampshire 2008: 384,826

In just two of fifteen battleground states, Obama improved. North Carolina and Colorado. That's it. Romney was 110k+ up from McCain in Colorado, while Obama was up just 35k.

He lost ground vs the GOP in every battleground state.

[Alexander's Horse]

Republicans are making the same mistake with Obama that they made with Clinton - assuming everyone hates him and his policies as much as they do.

They still have time to recover but they need to learn from this debacle fast. Gingrich didn't. The Bush team did.

Another thing that irks is conservatives are supposed to respect processes like Congress and most of all meeting honourable obligations like debt. The way they are behaving is very confusing for swinging voters. They aren't acting like conservatives, more like radicals.


I don't know how you can lead the free world when you can't govern yourself. The international implications of these games are very poor. Authoritarians like the Chinese communists and Putin point at these breakdowns and say, see, this is democracy. If the Republicans want America to be taken seriously internationally they can't be partisan all the time. The nadir for me was Syria where they urged Obama to bomb but wouldn't back a resolution in the House. That made the United States look quite ridiculous and weak.

[DinoDoc]

Romney and McCain were both solid candidates.

I thought Romney was a solid candidate at the time but hindsight has shown that how weak a candidate he was at least based on the weakness of his national campaign (Project Orca, seriously?) and the soft ground game he had. He also seemed more comfortable going on the offensive against his GOP primary opponents than he was wrt Obama even after the President's campaign accused him of being a murderer and a tax cheat.

I kind of wish Chris Christie had allowed himself to be drafted by people at the time who were disaffected with the field of contenders.

[Ben Kenobi]

Another thing that irks is conservatives are supposed to respect processes like Congress and most of all meeting honourable obligations like debt. The way they are behaving is very confusing for swinging voters. They aren't acting like conservatives, more like radicals.

Congress passed a budget. The Senate majority leader Harry Reid (Dem) refused to take it up for a vote. And yes - this would have triggered a non confidence motion and new elections if this were Westminster.

[Ben Kenobi]

I kind of wish Chris Christie had allowed himself to be drafted by people at the time who were disaffected with the field of contenders.

Absolutely nothing would have changed if Christie ran in the primaries. The position of Rockefeller republican was already taken by Romney.

A Rockefeller republican hasn't taken the presidency from the Democrats since Truman. Eisenhower is the only one who's ever won.

[Sava]

Romney and McCain weren't necessarily bad candidates. But when your policies basically ruin the country, it's hard to win elections.