Ben Kenobi vs Michael the Great

[Kidlicious]

The sickest part about this is Ben wants to deny deaf people resources because he wants to pay lower taxes. Everything he says is bull****.

[Kidlicious]

Then why do only 8 percent of all deaf students read at a 5th grade level? Some 'benefit'.

Because its hard to educate people who can't hear. Duh!

[Ben Kenobi]

Because its hard to educate people who can't hear. Duh!

So you're saying they read at a 5th grade level and that's the best they can expect to do? Bull****.

[kentonio]

He's not. Schools for the deaf benefit deaf students greatly, they just cost more.

I don't mean the nonsense about schools for the deaf being always bad, just the part about sign vs speech.

I didn't obscure it! I said so right at the beginning of this thread. It got buried by everyone avoiding the point.

It got buried because you were so busy writing a hundred posts about how deaf people are treated like blacks used to be, which is utterly stupid.

And then you sit on your prissy ass and argue, "It's not apartheid". What the hell else are deaf schools? What the hell else is this 'deaf' culture bull**** that leaves deaf students trapped in their own ****. That's goddamned apartheid.

Deaf schools are an attempt by well meaning people to provide specifically targeted education to a group that traditionally lost out in the traditional classroom. Sticking a deaf kid in a normal busy classroom and just expecting them to manage ****ed up generations of kids who were just branded 'stupid' or 'retarded' and deaf schools were intended to try and stop that. You can argue that they don't work as intended, you can argue that they fail in their goals but you can't argue that it's an evil plot to treat deaf people like a sub class because that is utterly idiotic.

[kentonio]

Ah ffs, this jonmiller **** is irritating..

[Ben Kenobi]

Deaf schools are an attempt by well meaning people to provide specifically targeted education to a group

I can quote well-meaning FW De Klerck arguing that this was needed to provide civilization to the Africans too.

I am not questioning their well-meaning motivations - but they are still very, very damaging to deaf students. It needs to stop. It is hard to get people who believe they are doing the right thing by us to stop 'helping'.

Sticking a deaf kid in a normal busy classroom and just expecting them to manage ****ed up generations of kids who were just branded 'stupid' or 'retarded' and deaf schools were intended to try and stop that.

I can see the motivation - the problem is that once they were taken out of the system, it removed accountability. Does the public at large really care about schools for the deaf? No, not really. Does the public at large really care that deaf people are educated so long as they are taken out of the system?

I'm not saying it's a rose garden - but that this is a difficult step that has to be taken. For the same reasons as integration with Dr. King. Integration was tough and difficult and not just for white folks - it will be tough and difficult and challenging for deaf folks too.

But, I think it IS worthwhile.

You can argue that they don't work as intended, you can argue that they fail in their goals but you can't argue that it's an evil plot to treat deaf people like a sub class because that is utterly idiotic.

The result is a sub class. That bothers me. If you sincerely believed you were doing the right thing - then you would be pissed at these kind of numbers. You'd be asking yourself and going, damn. Ok, we ****ed up, how can we fix this.

I didn't know this myself until I got to university and I started to do the research myself. I had always believed that what I did was *normal*, but then quickly found out just how rare it was. Especially having a student that wasn't just average, but one that actually successfully competed with hearing students. I was already in the top 1 percent when I graduated. Just couldn't make that second jump, so I settled for being your average college student.

I'm ****ing goddamned lonely. I want more smart deaf folks!!

[MichaeltheGreat]

I am a relevant source. I've done my homework. The problem is that people expect me to affirm their biases when they haven't done their homework, and are offended by confrontational opinions that argue contrary to what they believe. You'd be praising me to the stars and I would be your go to guy if I did affirm you and what you believe. If I said that special education was ok and that deaf people were doing better and better, etc.

No, you have such a penchant for being proven wrong then ducking or ignoring that, of selective culling of "evidence," of mixing opinion and fact and apparently being unable or uninterested in distinguishing the two, of mischaracterizing other's statements to an extent so extreme as to be clearly deliberate or a result of a gross comprehension deficit. If you affirmed anyone's beliefs, it would be an excellent indicator that those beliefs are worth significant reexamination.

It's offensive because it's true.

No, it's offensive because it ridiculously exaggerates one situation and trivializes another.

I already provided a source and a citation showing that rape + sexual abuse occured at schools for the deaf - where abusers took advantage of children with disabilities. So yes, while I did not personally suffer such abuse, others have and did suffer from this abuse. Would you rather I shut up and be quiet about the abuse, or rather that it was exposed for what it was?

A Catholic school for the deaf. So do we really have a "school for the deaf" problem, or another illustration of the endemic perversion allowed and covered up within the Catholic church?

[MichaeltheGreat]

I'm ****ing goddamned lonely. I want more smart deaf folks!!

If they were smart, they'd shun you.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, you have such a penchant for being proven wrong then ducking or ignoring that, of selective culling of "evidence," of mixing opinion and fact and apparently being unable or uninterested in distinguishing the two, of mischaracterizing other's statements to an extent so extreme as to be clearly deliberate or a result of a gross comprehension deficit. If you affirmed anyone's beliefs, it would be an excellent indicator that those beliefs are worth significant reexamination.

Wow it took two long sentences to say, "your opinions suck".

No, it's offensive because it ridiculously exaggerates one situation and trivializes another.

Ah, I see. So the fact that deaf people are doing even worse than Black people ever did trivializes their suffering. I shall refrain from making the comparison with predominantly able-bodied and better off black folks with the deaf.

A Catholic school for the deaf. So do we really have a "school for the deaf" problem, or another illustration of the endemic perversion allowed and covered up within the Catholic church?

If a black girl was raped, by a white man is it a hate crime?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Wow it took two long sentences to say, "your opinions suck".

There's your reading comprehension once again. Maybe there's a reason for thos school results.

Ah, I see. So the fact that deaf people are doing even worse than Black people ever did trivializes their suffering. I shall refrain from making the comparison with predominantly able-bodied and better off black folks with the deaf.

Who appointed you official pity-party spokeswoman for the deaf? How many deaf people legally denied housing? Voting franchise? How many deaf people became "Mississippi windchimes? Why don't you double down on your stupidity and start comparing it to the holocaust? Now go fetch me a lemonade boy, then get out and pick your quota of cotton for the day.

If a black girl was raped, by a white man is it a hate crime?

Not unless race was a specific provable motivation. What's your point? The Catholic Church has been greatest protector and perpetrator of pedophillia in modern history.

[Sava]

The Catholic Church has been greatest protector and perpetrator of pedophillia in modern history.

See. That's my point. If my church was actively enabling child rape, I'd be pretty pissed about it... not ignore it or act as an apologist. If anything, Ben is enabling child rape by not getting upset about it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Maybe there's a reason for thos school results.

Scored 1st out of class of 400+. Your ball.

Who appointed you official pity-party spokeswoman for the deaf? How many deaf people legally denied housing? Voting franchise? How many deaf people became "Mississippi windchimes? Why don't you double down on your stupidity and start comparing it to the holocaust? Now go fetch me a lemonade boy, then get out and pick your quota of cotton for the day.

Maybe I could get really offensive and compare the holocaust to abortion.

Not unless race was a specific provable motivation.

Is there any point at which race is more of a motivation than say, sexual gratification?

[Ben Kenobi]

If anything, Ben is enabling child rape by not getting upset about it.

If I wasn't angry about the sexual abuse of deaf children in a school for the deaf why did I bring it up?

I might ask of you the same question. If you really cared about it, why didn't you bring it up?

[Sava]

why didn't you bring it up?

Because child rape pisses me off. The media is slobbering over this guy's knob instead of letting us know whether or not he's played a role in said child rape.

And if he has, he should get beaten to death in prison.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Scored 1st out of class of 400+. Your ball.

So it's not lack of comprehension, just fundamental dishonesty and lack of integrity. Thanks for manning up and clarifying.

Maybe I could get really offensive and compare the holocaust to abortion.

It's been done.

Is there any point at which race is more of a motivation than say, sexual gratification?

Moron. Sexual gratification is not an established motivator for rape. Rape is a crime of control, power, and humiliation.