Ben Kenobi vs Michael the Great

[Kidlicious]

It's the same principle.

You're an idiot.

[Zevico]

It's the same principle. They had special black schools too before Brown - separate is inherently unequal. You should read the decision sometime so you can understand the reasoning.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/11/25/alleged-sexual-assault-st-viateur-deaf-institute.html

Roll your eyes at that!

Correction. Separate was historically unlikely to be equal. But it could be, given the right teachers, the right curriculum and the right discipline.

http://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

[MichaeltheGreat]

It's the same principle. They had special black schools too before Brown - separate is inherently unequal. You should read the decision sometime so you can understand the reasoning.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/11/25/alleged-sexual-assault-st-viateur-deaf-institute.html

Roll your eyes at that!

It has to be fiction. It's a Catholic school after all. Your church would never do such a thing.

And no, it's not the same principle at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

And no, it's not the same principle at all.

Well, then, I suppose I should bring out some statistics on education attainment and readin proficiency by deaf students.

Additionally, GRI shared some data from the 2008-2009 Texas State Survey of Deaf and Hard of Hearing Students that showed of the DHH students who graduated with no content modification (n = 105) or who graduated with an IEP (n = 150), 41% responded that they entered a postsecondary program. Allen (1994) reported data showing that, although two-thirds of the severely to profoundly deaf students leaving high school from 1992 –1994 attended some type of postsecondary institution, only one fourth read at the fifth grade level or above. Furthermore, Allen estimated that only about 8% of these college-bound deaf students read at the eighth grade level or higher.

http://gri.gallaudet.edu/AnnualSurvey/whodeaf.html

[regexcellent]

Dude, how much is your hearing actually impaired?

I go to a school for the deaf. No **** between 8-12% of the students each year are deaf or hard of hearing. The HoH ones ****ing manage.

[MichaeltheGreat]

He doesn't know there's an actual difference between being deaf and just not ****ing listening (or reading)

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, how much is your hearing actually impaired?

I have a frequency specific loss. I can't hear any frequency over 1200 HZ. I could stand by a fire alarm at 1200 hz and I won't hear a blessed thing. I can hear everything out to about 750 HZ ok, but beyond that, it drops to about 50 percent or so by 1000, and nothing past 1200.

[Zevico]

Well, then, I suppose I should bring out some statistics on education attainment and readin proficiency by deaf students.



http://gri.gallaudet.edu/AnnualSurvey/whodeaf.html

I suppose not being around people who were not deaf made it harder for deaf people to obtain better English/communication skills generally and therefore made it harder to deal with complex material or curricula in any field?

[Kidlicious]

Deaf students have to recieve special education. They obviously learn better that way. It's incredible that someone would compare that to being seperating because of their race. BK is one of a kind. That's for sure.

[Alexander's Horse]

what this thread really needed was a poll

[Ben Kenobi]

I suppose not being around people who were not deaf made it harder for deaf people to obtain better English/communication skills generally and therefore made it harder to deal with complex material or curricula in any field?

Unfortunately deaf education in the past 50 years has taken a gigantic leap backwards. They've taken Dewey's approach combined with the parochial (and incorrect) statement that the 'natural language' of deaf people is sign. Something around 20 percent at most sign exclusively. Most deaf folks sign + speak, and grow up in hearing families.

Sign isn't natural at all. It's been shown that deaf students can acheive proficiency in their native language (whatever language their parent's speak to them when they are small), if they are taught how to speak and extra time is put in with them when they are young.

The numbers are stark - teaching deaf kids to be primarily oral will put their reading levels on par with everyone else. Teaching them to sign dooms them to a life of poverty and makes them unqualified for every job out there.

[Ben Kenobi]

Deaf students have to recieve special education. They obviously learn better that way. It's incredible that someone would compare that to being seperating because of their race. BK is one of a kind. That's for sure.

The numbers back me up. Separate is inherently unequal. So sayeth Brown v Board of Education.

[regexcellent]

Deaf students have to recieve special education. They obviously learn better that way. It's incredible that someone would compare that to being seperating because of their race. BK is one of a kind. That's for sure.

You're not completely right about this. At RIT we have some classes with both hearing and deaf students. But the deaf students require interpreters, captionists, and note-takers. So they don't have to be separate but in a relatively small city in northern British Columbia it's unlikely that they'd have the resources for mainstreamed deaf students. BK is being retarded as usual.

[Ben Kenobi]

So they don't have to be separate but in a relatively small city in northern British Columbia it's unlikely that they'd have the resources for mainstreamed deaf students.

Nonsense. Even there, 30 years ago, it was possible to do and do quite successfully. The problem isn't the students, the problem is the system. Captioning is helpful, sure, but there are cheaper workarounds. Speech Therapy was far more helpful to me than anything else that was provided.

Most of the intervention was negative. They tried different stuff with me and I did fine if I sat up at the front and off to the side so that I could follow what the teacher taught. Make it so that notes are available for anything that's going to be tested. The biggest problem for me was French. And, of course, the inevitable movies, etc, which I used to sleep through.

The best advice I received was stuff on lighting and placement when entering the room. If I made sure I sad in the right spot, I did just fine.

They tried an FM system on me when they thought they knew more - it was a disaster. It never worked. Downtime was greater than uptime, and I had one of the older (and crappier systems). I learned later on that I did better without it and eventually ditched it.

I had one French teacher who was phenomenal, but he never used anything more than chalk and a chalkboard. He had me read French books over and over again, exempted me from tapes and stuff, and had me do written work that he felt would be useful for me to understand how the French language worked. I ended up loving his lessons because I came to understand how the language worked and he would correct my pronounciation after class and make sure I understood how all the sounds worked. French is easier to learn than English in that respect - each letter had one sound what you see is exactly what is on the page. He would have me practice recitation until the French just 'sounded right', and I would recognize when something was written incorrectly because it would seem 'off'. He was the best teacher I ever had and I learned so much from him.

But, everything he used with me didn't cost a thing, in fact he probably spent less on me than with the other students.

[Ben Kenobi]

Anyways, Regexcellence - you are hard of hearing too? What's your story? I don't meet many in my day to day goings about.