Dead body paraded around in Britain

[Dr Strangelove]

Oopsie

[Dr Strangelove]

the real leadership of the church is the saints not the Pope, catholics believe people like Don Bosco are still active, helping the living

I don't think the saints who were men would discriminate against the saints who were women. Since the Roman church still does so, then obviously the saints aren't in "real leadership".

[Alexander's Horse]

your sig isn't quite right Doc, it's a modernisation of what the abbott said in Latin:

"Cædite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" literally "Kill them all, God will know his own"

I had that on the wall of my office in Afghanistan,,,

[MikeH]

That makes one of us. We were taught about Good Queen Bess and Bloody Mary. Oddly enough we weren't taught that the connection the current royals have to the past royals is through Charles I. That rather deviates from the plot.

You must have had ****ty history teachers then.

[MikeH]

I think you'd find virtually every king, queen and pope of that era could be considered a theocratic tyrant.

[kentonio]

So you don't believe that executing priests for the 'crime' of conducting mass is noteworthy? I do. Tyranny is tyranny.

I think you're a ridiculous little troll who has made quite clear that you don't care in the slightest about the millions of catholics and non-catholics slaughtered by the catholic church, but who cries endless crocodile tears about a handful of catholic 'martyrs'. The funny part is that even the popes have accepted culpability for many of the darker parts of the churches history, yet you are far too stupid to follow their lead. This is probably why you are such a terrible historian, teacher and all round human being.

[Dr Strangelove]

your sig isn't quite right Doc, it's a modernisation of what the abbott said in Latin:

"Cædite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" literally "Kill them all, God will know his own"

I had that on the wall of my office in Afghanistan,,,

Except that it was an order written to a French soldier, so it probably was written in French.

[Dr Strangelove]

I think you'd find virtually every king, queen and pope of that era could be considered a theocratic tyrant.

Would that have something to do with the basic nature of monarchy? The word "king" isn't just a name given to a tribal cheiftan, it was a title given by the Germans to a leader who also had some sort of religious function.

[MikeH]

Exactly.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think the saints who were men would discriminate against the saints who were women. Since the Roman church still does so, then obviously the saints aren't in "real leadership".

Euhm? Really? Considering that we believe Mary is a mediatrix. No, just no.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think you're a ridiculous little troll who has made quite clear that you don't care in the slightest about the millions of catholics and non-catholics

Given that I was one myself, I should think that yes, I do care for them.

slaughtered by the catholic church

I'm going to need a [citation needed] on that. What I have noticed is that historians tend to lie about the Catholic church - I noticed this before I converted, that the more I actually examined things, the more I realized that they had an agenda to push. Opposition to the Catholic church in academia today is the standard position - just like antisemitism in Nazi Germany. If you're not anti-Catholic or anti-Clerical, you are considered unfit for a position.

The funny part is that even the popes have accepted culpability for many of the darker parts of the churches history

I don't, for example, hold the Pope reponsible for the 4th crusade. That actually only came about because the ex-emperor went to the Crusaders in Venice and asked for their help in restoring him as the Emperor, when they didn't have enough money to Crusade overseas. He promised them pay. Crusaders restored him, and then he didn't have the money to pay them. How on earth is the Pope responsible for that?

This is probably why you are such a terrible historian, teacher and all round human being.

I believe in facts and an evidentiary standard of proof. Just saying so doesn't make it so.

[Ben Kenobi]

You must have had ****ty history teachers then.

Given that you folks are taught the same things - it seems to me the problem wasn't the teachers, but the curriculum.

[Ben Kenobi]

There was the Cathar Crusade in southern France, some one million French people killed in order to make certain that a few thousand Cathar heretics were eliminated.

Well, that's right off the bat, wrong. Elizabeth was the sovereign over her subject. France had their King. Was the pope ever sovereign over this part of France? No. So right off the bat you'd applied responsibility to the wrong person. Two, one million? Really? Nonsense. A few thousand, maybe.

There was the crusade of the Teutonic Knights in north eastern Europe. Originally they were to bring the one true faith to the Prussians, a pagan slavic group living in what is now Prussia. The Teutonic Knights moved in, trounced the natives, set up their holy kingdom, converted the remaining Prussians to Catholicism, then to keep them from claiming the land, forbade the Prussians to procreate.

The Order were actually invited by the Poles and Germans to help them defend themselves from Pagans in northern Prussia. They became a successful religious order by attracting knights to defeat them and push them back. This 'prevent from procreation' nonsense is just the usual ahistorical bigotry. Next you'll be saying that they collected hordes of evil-Jew gold. Last I checked - they were defeated by schismatics and ex-pagans. I don't really see how the Knights were all that different from the Livonian Brothers of the Sword, or from the Hospitaliers. The thing that made them important in medieval times is that these were all investment houses - they had considerable support in Germany and throughout the Christian world.

so they extended their crusades to Poland

They started in Poland!

the massacres, the mass enslavements

Right, and that Jogialia fellow was a right and just libertine who courted Paris. Oh wait, no he wasn't. History is funny when written to paint the Church in the worst light possible. It glosses over the saintliness of her foes while treating every accusation as fact.

There were numerous protestant groups throughout Central europe in the 16th and 17th centuries.

You don't say.

The resulting first part of the Thirty Year's War killed over 2 million people

.

For which the Catholics are to blame no doubt for the entire thing. I see. So in every religious conflict, Catholics are responsible for 100 percent, and everyone else gets off scot free. Protestants executed Catholics, Protestants stripped the church of her property, protestants persecuted Catholics wherever they were in power. That was the trigger of the 30 years war - their attempt to impose the same 'justice' across the Empire as they had in England and in scandinavia. Which is why Westphalia was founded on the principle that there had to be a system of religious accord and agreement because the system previous wasn't working. At. All.

The result of that was sad, really. The Church kept to her side of that - but nobody else did. See the French Revolution, etc.

You have the gall to get your panties in a bunch over 40? Compared to millions? Wow, how big of you.

Interesting how you get that number by tacking on 100 percent blame to the Catholics for the 30 years war.

[giblets]

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[brian912]

He is not dead. He is just slepping...