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  • #46
    Originally posted by kentonio View Post
    If you truly believe that making yourself a huge pile of money magically helps communities then you're beyond help.
    So explain to me why people would willingly pay him if he wasn't being helpful? This is a key point in economics, you would do well to understand it.

    I actually bothered to research it when it was first announced. It turns Medicare into a ****ing voucher system that is going to completely **** millions of people, especially as the value of the vouchers fell over time.
    How is it going to **** millions of people? And what makes you think the value of the vouchers will fall over time?
    Oh and the best part to Ryans plans? They don't actually save money overall anyway, unless you believe his magical 'tax loopholes' argument which he's never bothered to actually specify.

    Bizarrely though (and obviously to the complete surprise of everyone) the Ryan plan will involve rich people paying less taxes. Who saw that one coming?
    This is false. It's going to mean you don't need an army of lawyers to get your proper tax rate. The plan is, cut overall rates, eliminate the swiss-cheese exemptions that rich people take advantage of to pay very little in taxes. You obviously don't understand a bit of it.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
    ){ :|:& };:

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
      So explain to me why people would willingly pay him if he wasn't being helpful? This is a key point in economics, you would do well to understand it.
      Don't be stupid. If I go out and sell crack on the street corner I will make a huge pile of money but society will not be improved as a result. Same if I sell high sugar sodas or ****ty TV shows. Yes, jobs are created making the product, but not all products have a positive afffect on society, and sometimes the negatives far outweigh the positives. If you don't understand that then you're the one who needs to start understanding how economics works as a part of the larger world, instead of seeing it as a standalone system.

      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
      How is it going to **** millions of people?
      What do you think those poor people are going to do when the cost of their medical treatment overruns the value of the voucher?

      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
      And what makes you think the value of the vouchers will fall over time?
      Because its tied to consumer index inflation not healthcare inflation which is higher in practice.

      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
      This is false. It's going to mean you don't need an army of lawyers to get your proper tax rate. The plan is, cut overall rates, eliminate the swiss-cheese exemptions that rich people take advantage of to pay very little in taxes. You obviously don't understand a bit of it.
      How is it going to do that? Which tax loopholes is he going to fix? Please provide some evidence to support what you just said other than 'duh, it makes common sense'.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by kentonio View Post
        I actually bothered to research it when it was first announced. It turns Medicare into a ****ing voucher system that is going to completely **** millions of people, especially as the value of the vouchers falls over time.
        Clearly the claim that you researched it is a lie, as the Wyden-Ryan (Coauthored by progressive Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.)) Medicare Plan's voucher requirement only applies to Americans younger than 55 years of age, and in addition gives those younger individuals the option of remaining in the traditional Medicare program. Also if you're so worried about the fate of Medicare, Obama has already cut more from Medicare than Ryan would ever dream of doing.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #49
          Originally posted by kentonio View Post
          How is it going to do that? Which tax loopholes is he going to fix?
          All of them. Seriously, ALL of them. The way Reagan did in the 80s.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • #50
            Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
            Clearly the claim that you researched it is a lie, as the Wyden-Ryan (Coauthored by progressive Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.)) Medicare Plan's voucher requirement only applies to Americans younger than 55 years of age, and in addition gives those younger individuals the option of remaining in the traditional Medicare program.
            I was talking about Ryans 'Path to Prosperity'. Ryan makes no secret about the outcome he wishes to achieve. Wyden-Ryan is still a pile of stinking ****, but if you believe a fully controlled Republican plan would contain even those protections then you're tripping.

            Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
            Also if you're so worried about the fate of Medicare, Obama has already cut more from Medicare than Ryan would ever dream of doing.
            Oh enough with the stupid FOX lies already. The cuts from Medicare Advantage were logical changes to save money without hurting Medicare recipients, and considering saving money from Medicare is something you lot squeal about on a daily basis, you should be lauding Obama to the heavens for it.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
              All of them. Seriously, ALL of them. The way Reagan did in the 80s.
              As I thought, you've got nothing.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                Ryan makes no secret about the outcome he wishes to achieve.
                That he wants to reform both programs in order to save them from collapse?
                “Both Medicare and Social Security cannot sustain projected long-run program costs under currently scheduled financing, and legislative modifications are necessary to avoid disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers.” - Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees
                Wyden-Ryan is still a pile of stinking ****,
                I'm still not seeing any reason to believe you researched anything wrt this issue given the fact you're essentially parroting the talking points from 2011's Lie of The Year.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                  That he wants to reform both programs in order to save them from collapse?
                  If the maintainance costs on a building are too expensive, one way to lower them would be to set the building on fire. This is not necessarily the best outcome for the people living there.

                  Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                  I'm still not seeing any reason to believe you researched anything wrt this issue given the fact you're essentially parroting the talking points from 2011's Lie of The Year.
                  I'm still not seeing any reason to care what you believe. As for that 'lie of the year' bull****, lets look at the reasons why they called it that:

                  Originally posted by Politifact
                  • They ignored the fact that the Ryan plan would not affect people currently in Medicare -- or even the people 55 to 65 who would join the program in the next 10 years.

                  • They used harsh terms such as "end" and "kill" when the program would still exist, although in a privatized system.

                  • They used pictures and video of elderly people who clearly were too old to be affected by the Ryan plan. The DCCC video that aired four days after the vote featured an elderly man who had to take a job as a stripper to pay his medical bills.
                  So let's recap: it changes Medicare into a privatized voucher system, but because there would still be a system called Medicare, it doesn't count as killing it, and it only ****s people 55 and younger. Wow, definitely lie of the year..

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                  • #54
                    Kentonio still hasn't explained why a voucher system is bad, or how he would manage to keep the insolvent program alive without changing it to a voucher program.
                    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                    ){ :|:& };:

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                      Words
                      I'm still waiting to see the results of this "research" into the plan you claimed to have done before deciding you were against it.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        Kentonio still hasn't explained why a voucher system is bad, or how he would manage to keep the insolvent program alive without changing it to a voucher program.
                        I asked you a very simple question earlier, and you still haven't answered it:

                        "What do you think those poor people are going to do when the cost of their medical treatment overruns the value of the voucher?"

                        Incidentally the answer to keeping the system solvent is extremely simple, adopt universal healthcare.

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                        • #57
                          Incidentally the answer to keeping the system solvent is extremely simple, adopt universal healthcare.
                          That's like fixing a crack addiction by shooting heroin.
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                            I'm still waiting to see the results of this "research" into the plan you claimed to have done before deciding you were against it.
                            I read lots of words that explained how the plan would work. I understand however that such an approach could be considered some weird kind of heathen science by you good republican folks.

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                            • #59
                              It's amazing how you lot are so quick to sneer at someone who instead of using his education to just get as rich as possible decided to invest his time and energy into improving the community and helping society.
                              The point is that he could afford to do these things because his family had the money and he didn't need to go out and work to earn money like the plebians.

                              conservatives who were traditionally huge supporters of communities working together to improve their lives.
                              Most of us do it on our own time. We don't suck back 6 large for it.

                              Provide some evidence to support that please, or else it will be added to your already huge list of blatent lies.
                              Madelyn (that white ***** Obama tossed under the bus just before she died) was VP of the Bank of Hawaii for 16+ years. Yep, Barry O was raised on the streets of Harlem.

                              Ryans extremist '**** the poor' plan is a perfect example of a right wing college kid sitting talking about how a world he's never really experienced should be run.
                              Sort of like Obama, who went to all the best schools and never paid a dime. I see.
                              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                                I read lots of words that explained how the plan would work.
                                I've seen no evidence of that in your posts thus far.
                                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                                Comment

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