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Catholic church condones child rape and is against the abortion that will save her life

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  • Let's go find more random obstetricians. This one trumps the no-name devout Catholic Brazilian one by being a professional of obstetrics and gynecology at a reputable American university.

    The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


    Doctors Appalled By 10-Year-Old Giving Birth

    A 10-year-old girl in Colombia recently gave birth via caesarian section, placing her among the youngest mothers in the world. Though the girl is now recovering, her case highlights the dangers of pregnancy before maturity, doctors say.

    "No 10-year-old anywhere in the world should be having a baby," Lewis Wall, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, told LiveScience.

    According to Good Morning America, the 10-year-old girl, a member of the Wayuu tribe in Manaure, Colombia, delivered a 5-pound (2.26 kilogram) baby girl. The age of the father is not known, but Colombian police reportedly cannot press charges as the tribe is under its own jurisdiction.

    The obvious risks of such an ordeal are mental, Wall said.

    "Any 10-year-old who is pregnant has already been abused significantly by somebody," he said. "That probably should go without saying."

    Nor are 10-, 11- and 12-year-olds remotely prepared to care for a baby, Wall said. But the risks are physical, as well.

    "The placenta preferentially will take nutrition from the mother, who really is a child," said Sherry Thomas, an ob/gyn at Mission Community Hospital in Panorama City, Calif. That means that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should still be growing herself. Likewise, pregnancy puts a major strain on the cardiovascular system, according to Wall. Pregnant women have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their bodies compared with non-pregnant women. [8 Odd Bodily Changes During Pregnancy]

    The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. (Some studies suggest that the average age of first menstruation is dropping, but the data is not conclusive.) Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.

    The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.

    The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk.

    "The younger you are, the more trauma will occur, because the pelvic floor isn't developed enough," Thomas said. In that way, she said, the young Colombian girl was fortunate to have access to a hospital that could provide a caesarean section.


    As growth tends to slow in girls once menstruation starts, a 10-year-old capable of getting pregnant is likely to be especially small, with a small pelvis, Wall said. And even if puberty onset is happening earlier (Wall isn't entirely convinced by the current data), pelvises are certainly not maturing any faster, he said. If puberty does occur earlier, that would put young girls at risk for dangerous pregnancies for a longer period of time.

    "It's heart-wrenching," Thomas said. "It's just overwhelming to see these young women pregnant and delivering."
    Using logic (bear with me, Ben!!!!), we can assume that if he thought no 10 year old should be delivering a single baby, he also believes a 9 year old should not deliver twins.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
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    • dp
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • Ben, do you think that an abortion could ever be medically necessary to save the life of the mother? Would this morally justify an abortion?
        Ectopic pregnancy is one such instance where abortion would be justified to save the life of the mother. At this point in time, you would have to remove that section of the fallopian tubes, and there is no way to save the child. So removing that section of the fallopian tubes to save the mother is justified.
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        • Ben's citation of doctors is pretty much equivalent to Creationists' citation of scientists. The vast majority of doctors agree that it isn't safe for a 9-year-old to bring twins to term, just as the vast majority of scientists agree that the universe is several billion years old. This is irrelevant. So long as a single doctor says that a 9-year-old could safely bring twins to term and/or that the 9-year-old's health is irrelevant, then Ben's beliefs are justified; so long as a single scientist says that the universe is 6000 years old then the creationist's beliefs are justified. The doctor/scientist doesn't even need to be real - so long as somebody hypothetically agrees with Ben, that's good enough.
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          • You continually fixate on one sentence from one doctor in one country who was not involved on the case.
            Well, I'm sorry. I'm taking her professional opinion for what it is, her professional opinion. She says it can be done safely - then lets do that.

            FURTHER STILL, in her full public comment even she never said the girl could carry the fetuses (fetii?) to term.
            Well, here's a puzzler. Have I ever said that she should carry her children to term? I said quite early on that she should deliver by c-section at 25 weeks. By then the children will be robust enough to survive outside of the womb. That would have meant 9 more weeks where she would carry her children (after already doing so successfully for 16.
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            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
              Ectopic pregnancy is one such instance where abortion would be justified to save the life of the mother. At this point in time, you would have to remove that section of the fallopian tubes, and there is no way to save the child. So removing that section of the fallopian tubes to save the mother is justified.
              Aside from ectopic pregnancy, could there every be an instance where abortion is needed and morally justified in saving the life of the mother?
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              • Ben's citation of doctors is pretty much equivalent to Creationists' citation of scientists. The vast majority of doctors agree that it isn't safe for a 9-year-old to bring twins to term, just as the vast majority of scientists agree that the universe is several billion years old. This is irrelevant. So long as a single doctor says that a 9-year-old could safely bring twins to term and/or that the 9-year-old's health is irrelevant, then Ben's beliefs are justified; so long as a single scientist says that the universe is 6000 years old then the creationist's beliefs are justified. The doctor/scientist doesn't even need to be real - so long as somebody hypothetically agrees with Ben, that's good enough.
                I also provided a citation that supports the conclusion of the Obstetician showing that girls 14 and younger are more likely to survive pregnancy than older woman. Why? Because they are rarer pregnancies, and they generally tend to get better support from doctors and medical professionals. So not only is the risk small, the risk is even smaller than usual, which is counterintuitive.

                You're the one arguing the position contrary to empirical evidence, saying that feathers fall more slowly than rocks, just because Aristotle said so. Now if you have empirical evidence to back up your claim, go right ahead.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
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                • Aside from ectopic pregnancy, could there every be an instance where abortion is needed and morally justified in saving the life of the mother?
                  Insofar as I'm aware? No. You can save the life of the mother and the child, so the conflict is not between saving one life rather than letting two die. This is why delivering by C-section is an option to save the life of mothers who may be at greater risk should the pregnancy continue - as in this case here.

                  I'm a big fan of taking the third option.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
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                  • Feathers do fall more slowly than rocks.

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                    • Feathers do fall more slowly than rocks.
                      Galileo says hello.

                      Galileo's "falling bodes" experiment re-created at the Leaning Tower of Pisa on May 31, 2009, by physicist Steve Shore of the University of Pisa. Movie by s...
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                      • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                        Not the video I was expecting. I was expecting a video taken on the moon, where there's no air resistance and feathers and rocks actually do fall at the same rate. For the record, feathers still fall more slowly than rocks almost all of the time.

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                        • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                          Insofar as I'm aware? No.
                          Then there's really no point to citing Random Doctor - just say "I believe that abortion is unnecessary and immoral outside of an ectopic pregnancy" and then everybody will know that they should ignore you
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                          • Then there's really no point to citing Random Doctor - just say "I believe that abortion is unnecessary and immoral outside of an ectopic pregnancy" and then everybody will know that they should ignore you
                            Why should I expect non-Catholics to find Catholic morality compelling? I'm not arguing we should do this because this is what the Catholic church teaches. I'm arguing we should do this because medical professionals say that this can be done to save the lives of her and her two children rather than killing them. You've presented a dilemma saying, "abort or die". You've got Spock saying that you should abort, to save the life of the one, and McCoy saying that she would die otherwise and Kirk saying, "Screw that, let's do this."
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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                            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                              Well, I'm sorry. I'm taking her professional opinion for what it is, her professional opinion. She says it can be done safely - then lets do that.
                              She actually never said that.

                              She said she didn't know of any where the mother died. Which is hilarious because a quick google shows an example of many.

                              She is clearly incompetent and her opinion differs from virtually every obstetrician you could ask, including a professor in that field. She was a devout Catholic doing what devout Catholics do -- lie to defend the church, make up excuses for them, and exploit children with no remorse.

                              I wouldn't be surprised if she opined that raping children never killed them, so long as it was a priest. Something I'm sure you'd be quick to agree with.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                              • FWIW, I don't know of any cases where a child died while being raped by a priest. Ergo, it must be safe to do so. [/Ben]
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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