White supremacist executed for Texas dragging

[kentonio]

Some christians (including myself), believe that some people are evil. I'm inclined to.believe that this guy who revieved the dp is evil, although I'm not suppose to judge people. That said I can't judge anyone and have to do.God's work by everyone. btw Im against dp.

Fair play to you, though there's a big difference between believing someone is evil and actually killing/supporting their execution. I just don't get how anyone can claim to be christian and still support violence. It's like those dumb ****s who try and claim that the bible wants them to be rich and hate poor people.

[Cort Haus]

Shame requires intelligence.

Not really, unless you think dogs are intelligent, as they feel shame. As do meerkats. I've even seen a cat looking ashamed when it fell into a pond it thought it could jump over.

Shame, guilt and embarrassment all operate at a social/moral level which doesn't really involve the sort of symbolic processing that language and problem-solving do. This can be informed by the higher processing but the actual emotional response itself is something that many mammals that we wouldn't consider as intelligent (in the sense that I believe you are implying) are capable of.

[Kidlicious]

Fair play to you, though there's a big difference between believing someone is evil and actually killing/supporting their execution. I just don't get how anyone can claim to be christian and still support violence. It's like those dumb ****s who try and claim that the bible wants them to be rich and hate poor people.

I think being against all violence is a hard thing, but then violence is one of those things that people can experience as bad. Some people support violence, but they've never been in war or anything like that. If theydid they might see what violence does to you. Even just saying thinbs like bk says is bad for your mind and soul though, but some people aren't smart.

[Kidlicious]

Not really, unless you think dogs are intelligent, as they feel shame. As do meerkats. I've even seen a cat looking ashamed when it fell into a pond it thought it could jump over.

Shame, guilt and embarrassment all operate at a social/moral level which doesn't really involve the sort of symbolic processing that language and problem-solving do. This can be informed by the higher processing but the actual emotional response itself is something that many mammals that we wouldn't consider as intelligent (in the sense that I believe you are implying) are capable of.

I don't tnink animals really feel shame. Maybe it's.a different emotion but it looks like shame.

%I think for human's shame is a component of social/moral and pride. It takes some intelligence to know to be ashamed. People who feel shame learn how to function in.human society better. Animals just act on instinct. I don't believe they have this aspect, (moral I mean).

[Cort Haus]

Kid, I mentioned meerkats because they have a social structure that requires different roles to be played by different members of the tribe. Transgressors can get evicted, which implies a sense of right and wrong wrt the required social/moral behaviour.

Maybe this is a discussion for another thread.

[Elok]

I've been told that dogs don't actually feel shame. You walk in the door and see the trash strewn all over the floor, your shoulders tense up without your noticing, and Fido puts on a submissive display to allay your wrath. Since you haven't said anything, you interpret this as "he knows what he did," and yell at him. The dog will still act equally "ashamed" if the trash is all over the floor because the cat knocked over the bin. We interpret this as shame because we project human emotions onto dogs, who have no morals, only "alpha is pissed, don't offer him a fight."

Or so I am told.

[Elok]

Catholic church is against the DP, last I checked. But I don't suppose you really know much about anything.

He's alluding to the crucifixion of Christ. If the Romans hadn't had the DP, it wouldn't have happened and presumptively our faith wouldn't exist. However, since you bring it up, if the RCC is against the DP, why exactly aren't you?

[kentonio]

What science is there showing that dogs don't feel shame? Seems an unlikely thing to be able to prove.

[Cort Haus]

Elok: Yeah, but that's because the cat is smart and knows how to make the dog take the rap. Cats.

[Kidlicious]

Kid, I mentioned meerkats because they have a social structure that requires different roles to be played by different members of the tribe. Transgressors can get evicted, which implies a sense of right and wrong wrt the required social/moral behaviour.

Maybe this is a discussion for another thread.

I get what you are saying, but I think meercat roght and wrong is something very different than human right and wrong. You might not see what I mean, but I would be happy to talk about it more.

[Elok]

What science is there showing that dogs don't feel shame? Seems an unlikely thing to be able to prove.

It's not that shame has been disproven so much as that there's a simpler explanation. Also, a dog will give you a "shame" display whether it has done anything wrong or not. Try looking at your dog while thinking of Michele Bachmann. It will apologize abjectly, because submissive displays are only meant to signal, "you are angry, I surrender, no need to actually bite me."

[Guynemer]

Of course, cats don't even bother to feign shame.

[kentonio]

Yet I've never had that impression from any of our dogs over the years. Had lots of times when a dog will meet you looking thoroughly ashamed of itself, and its then taken half an hour to work out what it is he'd actually done wrong.

I think we tend to dumb down animals to be honest. Guinea pigs in the wild for instance do an insane thing very occasionally where they form a ring around one individual and all lie on their front paws while the one in the middle keens for them. If thats not proof of a somewhat complex societal organization then I don't know what is, and dogs are a hell of a lot smarter than guinea pigs.

[Elok]

Pack hunters have so much more guilt to deal with. Also, cats are remorseless killing machines that would wipe us off the earth if we hadn't bred them down to size.

[Guynemer]

That's what I keep telling my wife whenever she starts cooing over some puma or something on TV or the zoo.