White supremacist executed for Texas dragging

[Kidlicious]

I think human guilt is caused by pride. It's more complicated than that, but it's different than animal emotions in that way.

[Elok]

Yet I've never had that impression from any of our dogs over the years. Had lots of times when a dog will meet you looking thoroughly ashamed of itself, and its then taken half an hour to work out what it is he'd actually done wrong.

Are you sure there was a connection there? Dogs have exquisite emotional sensitivity; they'll react to feelings you didn't even know you had. If Gardner weren't full of crap and there were such a thing as "interpersonal intelligence," dogs would be in that sense the smartest animals on earth. I mean, it's not like we can tell what dogs think, but there are any number of things a dog could be reacting to. If any animal in its daily life is upset in any way, the dog will reflect that upset.

I think we tend to dumb down animals to be honest. Guinea pigs in the wild for instance do an insane thing very occasionally where they form a ring around one individual and all lie on their front paws while the one in the middle keens for them. If thats not proof of a somewhat complex societal organization then I don't know what is, and dogs are a hell of a lot smarter than guinea pigs.

Oh, they have very complex societal organization; that's why they can sense emotions so keenly, why they put on submissive displays, and why we bond so deeply with them ourselves. Deeply enough that we tend to think of them as human on some level and assign notions of guilt that might not be accurate.

[Cort Haus]

Cats don't have/display moral guilt, but they can show shame if they think they've been uncool.

[Elok]

I think cats realize when they show weakness, and abruptly compensate to prevent others from detecting the weakness and destroying them. That is, after all, what snoogums would do himself if the tables were turned. I love my cat back home, but there's no denying that she's a barely civilized little ball of wrath and murder.

[Cort Haus]

They can be genuinely affectionate with people though (in their own interests of course) - and not people in general, the right people - who love cats and the cats know it.

[kentonio]

Oh, they have very complex societal organization; that's why they can sense emotions so keenly, why they put on submissive displays, and why we bond so deeply with them ourselves. Deeply enough that we tend to think of them as human on some level and assign notions of guilt that might not be accurate.

It's certainly possible, but I think it's equally possible that generally humans massively underestimate animals capability to feel emotion. Which kind of makes sense, because if we ever agree that larger animals can feel emotion like humans then the way we treat animals is going to raise some pretty huge ethical dilemnas.

[Elok]

Yeah, I'm exaggerating just the tiniest bit here The appeal of cats is very different from that of dogs. A dog is a wad of primal, unmasked emotion. A cat is actually two animals: the cute little thing we've made it to be, and the all-sufficient hunter it is by nature. The interplay between the two is remarkable. I can't be the only one who's jerked around a toy on a string, watching the kitty pounce on it, and suddenly realized, "You know what she's thinking now? If she could put it in words, probably something like 'deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathDEAT HDEATHDEATHDEATH!'" But yes, they can be very affectionate.

[Kidlicious]

Cat's have a kind of morality as well. My cat will dig her claws anywhere on my body except my face for some reason. I'm sure that's just instinct but it's a kind of morality.

[Guynemer]

Yeah, I'm exaggerating just the tiniest bit here The appeal of cats is very different from that of dogs. A dog is a wad of primal, unmasked emotion. A cat is actually two animals: the cute little thing we've made it to be, and the all-sufficient hunter it is by nature. The interplay between the two is remarkable. I can't be the only one who's jerked around a toy on a string, watching the kitty pounce on it, and suddenly realized, "You know what she's thinking now? If she could put it in words, probably something like 'deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathDEAT HDEATHDEATHDEATH!'" But yes, they can be very affectionate.

Our new cat has developed a habit of nesting in my left bicep. It is completely ****ing adorable. And it hurts like a mother****er, and gives me a nice batch of hives due to my cat allergies.

They are so ****ing different from dogs.

[Elok]

It's certainly possible, but I think it's equally possible that generally humans massively underestimate animals capability to feel emotion. Which kind of makes sense, because if we ever agree that larger animals can feel emotion like humans then the way we treat animals is going to raise some pretty huge ethical dilemnas.

Well, that would only be the case if the way we treated animals were coherent and rational. Few animals on earth are smarter than octopi, for example. We've known that for ages. But because octopi aren't photogenic, people all over the world still eat them for dinner. Meanwhile, giant pandas are too stupid to copulate without the panda equivalent of a master's degree, but we love them to pieces and spend staggering sums to keep Darwin at bay.

[kentonio]

Indeed, because 'clever' isn't something that most people care about. If suddenly it's proven that a cow feels similar emotions to a child however, then the **** is really going to hit the fan.

[Elok]

Cleverness itself? No. We like clever dolphins because they're fun and playful, and clever chimps because they look like people. But for a cow to feel emotions similar to a child would require intelligence on a vaguely similar level to that of a child, which I don't think cows have now or ever will. Actually, pigs are known to be pretty damn smart--Orwell put them in charge of the farm for a reason, they're at least as intelligent and emotionally complex as dogs. But they're also delicious, so we eat them anyway.

[Cort Haus]

I do wonder why cows, pigs and sheep evolved into the steak, bacon and chop.

[Dinner]

Well, that would only be the case if the way we treated animals were coherent and rational. Few animals on earth are smarter than octopi, for example. We've known that for ages. But because octopi aren't photogenic, people all over the world still eat them for dinner. Meanwhile, giant pandas are too stupid to copulate without the panda equivalent of a master's degree, but we love them to pieces and spend staggering sums to keep Darwin at bay.

Octopi taste great. Especially chopped up, prepared as a ceviche, and then served on a crisp freshly made tostada. Don't forget the hot sauce.

[Cort Haus]

Yeah, and I like gnawing old tyres. (tires to you)