A Bible question!!

[Kidlicious]

Berz,
You obviously haven't read Jeremiah. The Lord said that to Jeremiah in particular. Scripture says the Lord set him apart.

[DaShi]

Because God made him. Do you believe that God makes us only for us to be destroyed?

God kills people all the time as part of his plan. Frankly, your lack of faith is disturbing.

[Felch]

yeah, you're right, before he formed us in the womb. That just reinforces my interpretation its not a statement about you as an individual, but a generic reference to human nature. When did personhood begin according to the ancient Jews?

The mighty tike from Kansas St - TD!

I'm sure I read somewhere a number of days and weeks had to pass by before you became a living soul. Another version is based on Genesis and says you aint a living soul until you breathe the first breath of life.

In my question medical clinics wouldn't be allowed to perform abortions, they're banned from doing them. Why will we see women and babies die if abortion is banned? Because the ban wont stop abortions, it'll just make many less safe. So there will be women who die during abortions and there will be women who die giving birth because abortion is not allowed. Your question is better answered by a doc or nurse, but obviously there are medical conditions that cause women and babies to die. You dont think that happens? A baby is either stillborn or doesn't survive long outside the womb and the woman dies too. More common in the 3rd world I imagine, but abortion is legal here when the woman's life is in doubt.

So...is it sinful to abort a baby to save the life of the woman?

It's better to save one life than none. Of course, most abortions are about economic self-interest, not medical necessity.

[DaShi]

Exactly, the anti-abortion crowd is a bunch of communists.

[Kidlicious]

God kills people all the time as part of his plan. Frankly, your lack of faith is disturbing.

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

[Berzerker]

Berz,
You obviously haven't read Jeremiah. The Lord said that to Jeremiah in particular. Scripture says the Lord set him apart.

If I ever did, its been ages - I just read whats posted so tell it to Ben, he cited the verse as proof abortion is sinful, not me. If it refers specifically to Jeremiah, it doesn't refer to anyone else and aint relevant.

It's better to save one life than none.

One or the other, the woman or the baby?

[Kidlicious]

God doesn't just have personal relationships with prophets but with each person that he created. He created you before you were born. A fetus has genes doesn't it?

[Berzerker]

So does that mean the passage refers to everyone or just Jeremiah? You griped at me for thinking it was the former and now you're telling me something else, so which is it?

[Ben Kenobi]

In my question medical clinics wouldn't be allowed to perform abortions

I'm looking for something very specific here Berz.

Why will we see women and babies die if abortion is banned? Because the ban wont stop abortions, it'll just make many less safe.

So you're saying that abortion becomes less safe if it's banned? That's not a very good reason. If people hurt themselves killing other people is that a bad thing?

So there will be women who die during abortions

Actually, fewer women died from abortions back when they were illegal. More women die now.

there will be women who die giving birth because abortion is not allowed.

Again, there's no specific medical condition that abortion cures that would prevent women from dying from childbirth. You can simply do a c-section, and save the life of both the mother and child.

Your question is better answered by a doc or nurse, but obviously there are medical conditions that cause women and babies to die.

There's only one that's significant to warrant mention. Ectopic pregnancy. In all other cases, an emergency c-section can be done to save both mother and child.

So...is it sinful to abort a baby to save the life of the woman

In the case of ectopic pregnancy, no. All other cases, yes, because you can save both the mother and her child.

[Berzerker]

women all over the world will be overjoyed to hear they never die during pregnancies

so why aint it a sin to abort an ectopic pregnancy? As for what specifically you're looking for, I cant help you. I was asking Kid a question and neither of you answered it.

notwithstanding your most recent entry

[Ben Kenobi]

so why aint it a sin to abort an ectopic pregnancy?

Well, that's when the child is growing inside the fallopian tubes. If left untreated as the child grows, the tubes will burst and the mother will die along with her child. At present there is simply no way to save both the mother and the child. What the do is cut out a section of the tubes and remove the child inside the tubes. The intent is not to kill the child but to do the only thing that can be done, to save the mother.

This is the only complication that I'm aware of where the mother will die in the first trimester if the condition were left untreated.

[Kidlicious]

So does that mean the passage refers to everyone or just Jeremiah? You griped at me for thinking it was the former and now you're telling me something else, so which is it?

I never said the passage explicitly refers to everyone. Look God doesn't intend for His Word to be scutinized over like a legal document. He doesn't expect us to interpret it liberally. He expects us to make a good sound judgement about it, and that's why Christians tend to agree that abortion is a sin.

[Berzerker]

Well, that's when the child is growing inside the fallopian tubes. If left untreated as the child grows, the tubes will burst and the mother will die along with her child. At present there is simply no way to save both the mother and the child. What the do is cut out a section of the tubes and remove the child inside the tubes. The intent is not to kill the child but to do the only thing that can be done, to save the mother.

This is the only complication that I'm aware of where the mother will die in the first trimester if the condition were left untreated.

according to wiki not all ectopic pregnancies are doomed to die, but dangerous for the woman if allowed to grow to viability.

I never said the passage explicitly refers to everyone. Look God doesn't intend for His Word to be scutinized over like a legal document. He doesn't expect us to interpret it liberally. He expects us to make a good sound judgement about it, and that's why Christians tend to agree that abortion is a sin.

is it sinful to save the life of a woman by aborting the baby?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Berz,
You obviously haven't read Jeremiah. The Lord said that to Jeremiah in particular. Scripture says the Lord set him apart.

I was wondering when this would be pointed out:

Jeremiah 1 (NIV):
4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Now this passage does apply to Jeremiah specifically, but the Bible doesn't just only have applications to the author/speaker and person reading it at the time it was written, but has application throughout the ages. Of course we must try to figure out the intent of the author and what the reader in that age took from it, but then we can more accurately apply it to our own lives.

This passage deals with how God knew Jeremiah and how he was to become a prophet prior to his (Jeremiah's) own creation. As God knew Jeremiah, he knows each of us.

Anyway, I also think Kidicious is right that we tend to get all legalistic about the Bible and read in certain things to certain passages and don't try to get at the gist of the book/passage. The Bible was never intended for verses to be used as akin to Constitutional prouncements. As for abortion, I think the Didache is likely the best evidence as to what the original followers of Jesus understood on the matter of termination of pregnancy. What to do about it is another question (for one, our societ[ies] need to do a better job in helping and taking care of pregnant women, especially single one, and our loss of community has made it all the more difficult).

[BlackCat]

This thread needs something funny link