A Bible question!!

[Ben Kenobi]

Knowing the existence of somebody implies knowledge of their actions.

Knowing all possibilities!= knowing what option will be chosen.

[Kidlicious]

It's pretty obvious that abortion is a sin.

[Berzerker]

That passage about God knowing us before the womb is a reference to our nature, not us as individuals. Born sinners? Adam's fall is our fall, God knew "us" way back in the Garden.

[BlackCat]

Knowing all possibilities!= knowing what option will be chosen.

True, but that isn't an argue against abortion - quite contrary. It actually support abortion since it's the choice of man to do what it seems correct, and that even with the approval of god.

[Berzerker]

It's pretty obvious that abortion is a sin.

to save the woman's life? what if abortion aint allowed and both die?

[BlackCat]

to save the woman's life? what if abortion aint allowed and both die?

It's according with gods wishes

[Ben Kenobi]

That passage about God knowing us before the womb is a reference to our nature, not us as individuals. Born sinners? Adam's fall is our fall, God knew "us" way back in the Garden.

Also true, but the point that our individual existence begins in the womb is the point here.

[Ben Kenobi]

to save the woman's life? what if abortion aint allowed and both die?

Name a circumstance where this would be true, where you could not save both the mother and the child.

To try to save the life of the mother and child isn't sinful. To kill someone when there are other options, is sinful.

[Kidlicious]

to save the woman's life? what if abortion aint allowed and both die?

I mean people who just don't want the baby.

[Ben Kenobi]

True, but that isn't an argue against abortion

Uh, yes it is. Abortion is sinful because it kills the unborn child in the womb of his mother. They shove a vacuum in and shred the child. Then they make sure to take all the pieces out because the woman could die from sepsis.

It actually support abortion since it's the choice of man to do what it seems correct, and that even with the approval of god.

Why would he be relevant to you? Do you ask yourself, "is this what God would want" when you go about your day?

[BlackCat]

Uh, yes it is. Abortion is sinful because it kills the unborn child in the womb of his mother. They shove a vacuum in and shred the child. Then they make sure to take all the pieces out because the woman could die from sepsis.

How do you know that that isn't gods plan for that baby ?

Why would he be relevant to you? Do you ask yourself, "is this what God would want" when you go about your day?

I'm pretty sure that god don't mess with my life, but you seem to think that he does with yours. Fine if you can accept such, but don't expect that others should do it.

[Ben Kenobi]

How do you know that that isn't gods plan for that baby ?

Because God made him. Do you believe that God makes us only for us to be destroyed?

I'm pretty sure that god don't mess with my life

He does Blackcat, because he knows you too. He loves you.

Fine if you can accept such, but don't expect that others should do it.

You're the one claiming that God wants X and that we should do X even though you don't believe that you should follow God. See the problem here?

[Berzerker]

Also true, but the point that our individual existence begins in the womb is the point here.

The passage said God knew us when we were being formed within the womb, not before. And I think the biblical Jews believed personhood began during the pregnancy, not at conception.

COLSTON FUMBLE!!!

Name a circumstance where this would be true, where you could not save both the mother and the child.

abortion is legal... I asked what if abortion was not allowed and both died. Ban abortion and we will see it happen, both will die to avoid a sin.

To try to save the life of the mother and child isn't sinful. To kill someone when there are other options, is sinful.

Here's an option: the woman dies and the child lives because an abortion wasn't allowed to save her life.

Oh well, God did curse women with painful childbirths because Eve pissed him off.

[Ben Kenobi]

And Admiral Armbar recovers... and I own him. Good way to start the year.

The passage said God knew us when we were being formed within the womb, not before.

It says Before, what version are you using...

And I think the biblical Jews believed personhood began during the pregnancy, not at conception.

Again, you're wrong here.

abortion is legal... I asked what if abortion was not allowed and both died.

And we have good medical clinics. Why would that ever happen?

Ban abortion and we will see it happen,

Why?

Here's an option: the woman dies and the child lives because an abortion wasn't allowed to save her life.

So give me an example where that would happen. Is there a medical condition that occurs during pregnancy that would cause both mother and child to die?

[Berzerker]

yeah, you're right, before he formed us in the womb. That just reinforces my interpretation its not a statement about you as an individual, but a generic reference to human nature. When did personhood begin according to the ancient Jews?

The mighty tike from Kansas St - TD!

I'm sure I read somewhere a number of days and weeks had to pass by before you became a living soul. Another version is based on Genesis and says you aint a living soul until you breathe the first breath of life.

In my question medical clinics wouldn't be allowed to perform abortions, they're banned from doing them. Why will we see women and babies die if abortion is banned? Because the ban wont stop abortions, it'll just make many less safe. So there will be women who die during abortions and there will be women who die giving birth because abortion is not allowed. Your question is better answered by a doc or nurse, but obviously there are medical conditions that cause women and babies to die. You dont think that happens? A baby is either stillborn or doesn't survive long outside the womb and the woman dies too. More common in the 3rd world I imagine, but abortion is legal here when the woman's life is in doubt.

So...is it sinful to abort a baby to save the life of the woman?