I've had enough

[rah]

FTW

[Ben Kenobi]

And maybe you shouldn't have whined like a stuck pig about not getting your favorite player, and then quitting. There was no need to ask any questions when you made yourself perfectly clear about your reasons.

This is where Ming says, I know I don't have all the facts, so I'm gonna lie about BK and his intentions anyways, on Apolyton, about a post on FFZ, back in March.

And I'm supposed to look up to you as a man? I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry.

But it could have happened... and you had no way to know that when you screwed everybody.

Uh, Ming. Last I checked you were a man down before I joined 2 days before the draft. Ain't my responsibility if you can't get your **** together. This thread has lasted longer than the time I was a part of your league. And you're still *****ing.

Just because it did work out doesn't absolve you of that fact that you screwed the people in the league by quitting.

Again, it's not my fault that you were down a man. Worst case scenario you're down a man, and I notice you never bothered to answer the question. Funny that. Take one for the team? Ming? Never!

No need... Walrus already had agreed to after you screwed us.

So it seems as if the 'disaster' worked itself out quite well.

And how does anybody know that you aren't just lying through your teeth now to save face

So let's get this straight. I'm lying about something I've not actually said anything to anyone about save Berz? Seems a funny way to save face. No, maybe I just didn't tell you because you never did ask, or bother to find out.

Again, you're accusing me of something why? Because I didn't want to play in your little game that you guys dumped on me?

why should anybody believe your made up crap now?

Uh, ever stop to think that the only reason you are finding out about it now, is because you never asked before?

But you did screw everybody by quitting AFTER the start of the draft,

Well gee, There was 2 days between when I joined and when the draft started. Would you have preferred me to quit later? Somehow I doubt that. This way the other player got to have his own team, not mine,

What a joke... You are the one trying to make hay out of the fact you gave a gift... yet while at the same time, being a bigot, liar and general sleezeball.

So that made it right to not tell me anything about it, and to make JR write to me six months later to inform me of what is going on?

Dude, real men would have written me short note when the gift came, and you made your decision to not accept it. Real men don't dump on their friends to do that for you.

C'mon Ming. I've already admitted that I should have done things differently. So should you. Instead you'll justify justify justify rather then admitting you erred. All the while attacking my character.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I have to commend Asher on this. What was started as the annual routine hate on for the ususal suspects has transformed into a classic melt down of the twins. Masterful trolling Asher, masterful.

[rah]

Actually I think I get the credit for mentioning the Draft fiasco. I seemed to hit a sore point for BK. I don't think making a post or two setting the record straight on HIS GIFT quite qualifies as a melt down. Entertainment, yes, of course.

[Flubber]

The draft issue is getting repetitive now though but in typical ben fashion he continues to fight his hopeless case. lets turn the discussion a tiny bit so we can get away from the reassertion of the exact same things and I will ask the question in a slightly different way

Ben? Is it ok to STEAL someone's used car if their insurance proceeds allow them to buy a car that turns out far better?? Is it somehow "more ok " if the stolen car was a piece of crap that conked out 10 minutes after the theft?

Or more simply, is it ok to do wrong things if it later turns out ok somehow-- you know -- like I punch you in the face unprovoked but when you get an xray-- they find a brain tumour and you life is saved (it would not have been found otherwise since you don't get regular exams) -- Are you asserting that makes the original -- completely unprovoked punch -- "ok" ??


That seems to be your only assertion-- It turned out ok.


In the realm of "doing wrong", I would see quitting a draft as being relatively minor but it is clearly and unequivocally wrong to do so . Maybe joining was your mistake but quitting was where you did wrong.

[Lorizael]

[giblets]

Wait, I thought Ben didn't like consequentialist ethics? I guess he does if it supports his argument

[Ming]

Ben? Is it ok to STEAL someone's used car if their insurance proceeds allow them to buy a car that turns out far better?? Is it somehow "more ok " if the stolen car was a piece of crap that conked out 10 minutes after the theft?

Or more simply, is it ok to do wrong things if it later turns out ok somehow-- you know -- like I punch you in the face unprovoked but when you get an xray-- they find a brain tumour and you life is saved (it would not have been found otherwise since you don't get regular exams) -- Are you asserting that makes the original -- completely unprovoked punch -- "ok" ??


That seems to be your only assertion-- It turned out ok.


In the realm of "doing wrong", I would see quitting a draft as being relatively minor but it is clearly and unequivocally wrong to do so . Maybe joining was your mistake but quitting was where you did wrong.

Great stuff...

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben? Is it ok to STEAL someone's used car if their insurance proceeds allow them to buy a car that turns out far better?? Is it somehow "more ok " if the stolen car was a piece of crap that conked out 10 minutes after the theft?

Not arguing that at all. I am arguing that accepting was my mistake. I made the wrong decision, and rather then continue to make the wrong decision, I stopped then and there. If you're headed in the wrong direction, staying the course isn't the right decision, is it?

That seems to be your only assertion-- It turned out ok.

No, my assertion is that the league was better of without than with me. Me quitting brought this outcome about.

Maybe joining was your mistake but quitting was where you did wrong.

So you'd have rather had a zombie owner. Interesting logic. Joining was my mistake and fixing that mistake meant leaving. Did it ruffle feathers? Yes. I stand by my decision to leave as the correct one.

[MRT144]

and yet it maintains a sports club roughly equal to or better than Poly, CFC and Speakeasy - that aint bad for a ghost town

What about counterglow?

[Zoetstofzoetje]

Did someone scratch the vinyl? I think it's stuck in the groove.

[Flubber]

Ben

How can you not understand this.


It might be a mistake if I decide to organize a large fundraiser. But its wrong if I quit at the last minute and it remains wrong even if someone else steps in and runs it better than I would have.

Better results don't matter to the right or wrong of the original act.

[Ben Kenobi]

How can you not understand this.

You're not getting me.

It might be a mistake if I decide to organize a large fundraiser. But its wrong if I quit at the last minute and it remains wrong even if someone else steps in and runs it better than I would have.

One, I wasn't the organizer. Two, you're a lawyer. I don't know what your specialty is, but if you got a client come to you and ask you to represent them, despite not having experience in that speciality. You say yes. Then you start working on it and reconsider when you realize that you don't have what you need to represent the client properly.

Option 1. Represent the client.
Option 2. Change your mind.

How would you do this, knowing that they've come to you at the last minute? They claim they cannot find representation, but you suspect that they can find someone better.

[Flubber]

Ben

I would never take the case if I don't have the ability.

But for the sake of the example, if I take it, it woyuld then have been a serious professional miscounduct for me to say, dump the client , minutes before the hearing, if the hearing was going to go ahead as scheduled regardless. It would remain serious professional misconduct even if the clients managed to grab the 'best attorney ever" who did more for them than I ever could


* note I answered only for the sake of the discussion as I do not have clients and in fact am currently not even working a lawyers role. While my permanet title is still legal counsel, I am in an interim management role with 11-13 people reporting to me. I will get back to legal stuff within a month or so though and did work private practice enough to know the professional responsibilities

[BlackCat]

Please tell me I'm wrong - Ben has just compared legal aid at a court with some silly game on teh intarweb ????