"I no longer want to live on this planet."

[Ben Kenobi]

So if islam is inherently violent and aggressive why are there so many muslims who don't advocate killing people?

Such as?

Hirsan Ali, perhaps? You might want to ask her opinion about the faith.

[Ben Kenobi]

I mentioned America because the "mosque" in question would be built in America, and serve/represent primarily American Muslims.

Which is why there are plenty of other Mosques in NYC. Which is also why they were aiming at opening the one at Ground Zero on the anniversary of 9-11.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure. No symbolism here.

And if more than a tiny smattering of those were routinely taught to kill civilians, we would have a lot more dead civilians, because we have millions of Muslims.

You don't consider 3000 significant? I do. There are plenty of civilians around the world if you really want to up the body count, look at what's going on in Sudan right now.

But of course, Islam is a religion of peace and coexistance.

Maybe Holland would be more your taste?

Again, referring to Islam as a single concrete entity.

That is what the Caliphate is, isn't it, Elok? A single unified authority for the entire world? Are you suggesting that Islam doesn't seek to form the Caliphate? Most of the arguments are over who is going to be the top dog, not over the ultimate goal.

And if that's their goal, they're doing a remarkably ****ty job of pursuing it, or even passing on the message, because only the minutest handful of Muslims actually kill anyone. And a number of the ones who do kill, kill other Muslims.

Yet, they happen to be the sponsors of global terrorism. Just a coincidence eh? Just how many suicide bombers do you think there are, elok? Millions of them.

Nobody mentioned Sharia here, this private organization would have no power to impose Sharia, ergo this is irrelevant.

Oh really. Why then are the mosques up here pushing to enforce Sharia law? Is that because of the great respect they have for the British common law? No, not at all.

Also, historically--for Christians and Jews, at least--it was "submit or be treated as a second-class citizen," unless by "submit" you mean not resisting the military power of Islamic conquerors. And not "submitting" in that sense is generally a death sentence regardless of anyone's religion.

Which is why they were so patient and tolerant with Constantinople. Oh wait, I mean Istanbul. PBUH.

I'm not sure what history books you've been reading but anyone who had the misfortune of living near a muslim majority country has pretty much consistantly had to fight to keep their freedom. And heaven help you if you were to lose.

I notice you completely ignored my point about honour killings. They can and do happen here in the civilized west, but I guess in your world they aren't a reality. Wake up, Elok, all I can say.

The second is merely your (deranged) opinion

So it is deranged to suggest that those who are responsible for the crime should pay the penalty. You need to reread what I said, rather then interpreting it through your rose coloured glasses.

I did not say that all Muslims were responsible, but I did say that Muslims were the ones responsible for 9-11. This is a fact. Therefore, it will be muslims, the ones responsible for the atrocity, who bear the consequences of the law.

Until you can find any connection whatsoever between this group and AQ, this is empty bull****.

Interesting. I never suggested this at all. Perhaps you fear this connection?

I have no idea why you're dragging the HS into this.

I suspect you do. Perhaps I'm wrong here, perhaps I'm all prescient. I hope I'm wrong about all of this, but I fear I am not.

You're the historical expert, why might I bring the Hagia Sophia into all of this?

[Boris Godunov]

The first minute give or take of this video seems to do a good job of that: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade

How?

First Obama clip: he defends the right of Muslims to build a mosque.
Second Obama clip: he says he wasn't commenting on whether or not building this particular mosque is wise.

There is absolutely nothing contradictory or incongruous about those statements, any more than there would be a "contradiction" between me defending the right to your free speech while at the same time making no comment one way or the other about how retarded what you just said was.

[David Floyd]

Ben, do you believe that all Muslims bear, or should bear, some form of collective guilt for 9/11 specifically and terrorism in general?

[Boris Godunov]

nm

[Al B. Sure!]

This is why I don't want to see Sharia practiced in the US.

One, this isn't going to happen.

Two, honestly, is anyone else seeing any reason why Ben wouldn't want to live in a country with Sharia? I mean aside from the different religion thing and maybe Ben is really into bacon, the moral rules are right up Ben's alley. I don't see why he wouldn't mind a system that does not allow abortions, gays, adultery, pre-marital sex, etc.

I guess because divorces are allowed in Sharia... that's one difference I suppose with Ben's Catholic line of thinking.

Ben? Could you explain exactly why you even take issue with Sharia? It seems like if it came word for word from the Pope, you would be all for it, since you support the ideas behind it very much already. Is it the punishments with the flogging and the amputations that's your problem?

[giblets]

One, this isn't going to happen.

Two, honestly, is anyone else seeing any reason why Ben wouldn't want to live in a country with Sharia? I mean aside from the different religion thing and maybe Ben is really into bacon, the moral rules are right up Ben's alley. I don't see why he wouldn't mind a system that does not allow abortions, gays, adultery, pre-marital sex, etc.

I guess because divorces are allowed in Sharia... that's one difference I suppose with Ben's Catholic line of thinking.

Ben? Could you explain exactly why you even take issue with Sharia? It seems like if it came word for word from the Pope, you would be all for it, since you support the ideas behind it very much already. Is it the punishments with the flogging and the amputations that's your problem?

It's mostly an argument over who gets to be top dog.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

How?

First Obama clip: he defends the right of Muslims to build a mosque.
Second Obama clip: he says he wasn't commenting on whether or not building this particular mosque is wise.

There is absolutely nothing contradictory or incongruous about those statements, any more than there would be a "contradiction" between me defending the right to your free speech while at the same time making no comment one way or the other about how retarded what you just said was.

Boris for Prez. You at least were able to articulate in a mere scant three sentences an idea that the current office holder was unable to in a single sitting. No need to set up Strawmen and show your mental prowess by knocking them down, you.

For that you deserve worthy consideration of the office of POTUS.

[Elok]

Okay, I'm not, repeat NOT, going to dissect that wad of "retorts" for logic that evidently isn't there, nor am I going to reply directly. That's just a steaming midden of bigoted assertions and I've run out of patience to wade through it. But I would like to say that, when I mentioned Sufism earlier, I had no clue that the cleric in charge of CH and his congregation were, in fact, Sufis. Sufis, FFS. The branch of Islam so esoteric, mystical and syncretist that it's arguably not even Islam at all. The ones who spend half their time singing and dancing, the ones best represented by a ****ing Care Bear with a crescent on his tummy. The most harmless, hippie-ish branch of Islam on the planet, about as likely to go on Jihad as the Quakers are to start a crusade. This is not for your benefit, BK. I'm just letting everybody else know that this whole debacle is even more retarded than I thought it was already.

[Guynemer]

Indeed.

[Al B. Sure!]

Mujahideen:







Clearly.

[Guynemer]

Looks like the practice the Ascetic Virtues!

They're under the control of Chairman Yang!

[Elok]

Bear in mind that you can hide a lot of plastique under those swirly robes, gentlemen. I'd call them an insidious fifth column, except columns generally don't spin so much.

[Guynemer]

Reminds me of an old adventure game, Police Quest 2. In said game, your plane is hijacked by terrorists who have a bomb, I swear to god, hidden in their turban.

Ah, casual racism.

[Hauldren Collider]

seems like a practical place to hide a bomb. more practical than underwear anyway.