Christianity ruins families.

[Elok]

Yes, but thankfully, I'm part Scottish and Welsh as well as part French and German. My Celtic blood hereby gives the rest of me rights to live in what is now known as the UK. Sure, the food's bad, but it's a sight better than Russia...

[Ben Kenobi]

I take it you're also in favor of reparations for slavery? If mistreated black people are due recompense (true), then surely their great-grandchildren inherit that claim from the great-grandchildren of the ones who hurt them; mixed-race people should simply write themselves a check in proportion to how black they are, excluding any percentage of their heredity that happens to be Asian (Latinos are part Native American and, therefore, should get a separate check).

The only correct way to do that would be to give a cheque to anyone who can prove that they are a descendent of a slave, not black people, which is why it will never happen. This would also include many white people too, and exclude many black people. But then you aren't really interested in justice, merely handouts.

It would also be a one-time thing, which is also why it would never happen.

If everyone who was a descendent of a slave and only those who could prove that they were descendents, and if they weren't allowed to collect welfare anymore then I would agree to paying them the equivalent of about 50k per family.

[Elok]

But then you aren't really interested in justice, merely handouts.

As opposed to the "justice" of kicking millions of people who have done nothing wrong out of their homes, and giving said homes to other people who have done nothing to deserve them?

EDIT: To be fair, maybe you just meant destroying their government, replacing it with foreigners and making them into de facto second-class citizens.

[giblets]

Yeah, I do believe they are morally obligated to give it back. If it's not wrong for Christians to go to war to take it back, how is it wrong for it to be returned peacefully?

It wouldn't be wrong for Muslims to decide to give it back, but it's also not wrong for them to keep it. You can't carry out any sort of justice when the victims and perpetrators have been dead for centuries. A country is not a person, and neither is a nation or a religion.

[Ben Kenobi]

As opposed to the "justice" of kicking millions of people who have done nothing wrong out of their homes, and giving said homes to other people who have done nothing to deserve them?

Where did I say deporting them would occur?

EDIT: To be fair, maybe you just meant destroying their government, replacing it with foreigners and making them into de facto second-class citizens.

Again, where did I say this would occur? Greece is a representative democracy. They would all be Greeks again, and gain automatic Greek citizenship.

[Ben Kenobi]

It wouldn't be wrong for Muslims to decide to give it back, but it's also not wrong for them to keep it. You can't carry out any sort of justice when the victims and perpetrators have been dead for centuries. A country is not a person, and neither is a nation or a religion.

I thought reparations were perfectly ok. You've twisted yourself into knots.

There's no difference between the two. A nation is composed of individuals.

[giblets]

I thought reparations were perfectly ok. You've twisted yourself into knots.

There's no difference between the two. A nation is composed of individuals.

Strawman... I don't remember ever endorsing "reparations".

And yes, there's a difference between a nation and a person. People belong to a nation but a nation is not itself a person. Every person who was wronged by the Muslim conquests, if they are to be considered wrong, has been dead for centuries.

[BeBMan]

Again, where did I say this would occur? Greece is a representative democracy. They would all be Greeks again, and gain automatic Greek citizenship.

Gotta love debates that are well grounded in reality. Greeks certainly would welcome becoming an ethnic and religious minority in their own country, so would be others. Not to start with silly stuff like how likely, reasonable and practical a large-scale restructuring of the world's borders, states etc. would be, given that conquests are hardly a rare thing in human history...

[Wezil]

Best post in this thread, period. I don't always agree with Ben and his debating, although I can see where he's coming from for the most part, but most of the treatment he's given here is below dignity.

Another ostrich.


Are there any non-religious nuts that feel this way? Do you have to believe in imaginary beings in order to "get" Ben?

[Elok]

Hey, I'm Christian and I think BK is deranged. I'm pretty sure Imran does too.

[Wezil]

You overlooked the first question.

[MrFun]

I'm Christian, and I agree with Elok's assessment of Benny.


x-post

[Wezil]

I'm more interested in hearing from the non-believers that think Ben is sane.

His supporters are all from the imaginary beings group.

[Nikolai]

Wezil, our beloved nice guy who tolerate and respect other people's beliefs and feelings.

[dannubis]

A religeous person lecturing about tolerance